Which unit?

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Timo
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Which unit?

Post by Timo » 22 Apr 2002 04:53

Image

Which Division/Abteilung/battle do we see here?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Timo

Rasputin17
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Re: Which unit do we see here ?

Post by Rasputin17 » 22 Apr 2002 07:56

Hi

Since the tanks are obviously Tiger I, I would suggest, that it is one of the Schwere Heerespanzer Abteilungen (Heavy Tank Battaillons).
Because there are standing on a wide open field I'd say the y are on the Eastern front, Southern sector but that is mere speculation.


Martin
Martin

Timo
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Post by Timo » 22 Apr 2002 09:06

Hallo Martin,

Schwere Heerespanzer Abteilungen? Hmmm. But the infantry is definitely SS. I was thinking about 13.(s)Kompanie of either 1., 2. or 3.SS. My guess of theatre is Kursk.

Anyone?

Timo

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Post by Gwynn Compton » 22 Apr 2002 09:57

Could well be, but it depends whether the SS divisions employed in the battle used Tigers...

Rasputin17
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Re: Which unit ?

Post by Rasputin17 » 22 Apr 2002 11:41

On the assumption that this picture was taken at Kursk......

The Tigers present at Kursk were deployed in the following formations:
The numbers of the Tigers in the formations are in brackets

1. SS Panzer Grenadier Division LAH - 13. Kp./1. SS Panzer Regiment (13)
2. SS Panzer Grenadier Division DR - s. Kp./2. SS Panzer Regiment (14)
3. SS Panzer Grenadier Division T - 9. Kp./3. SS Panzer Regiment (15)

Panzergrenadier Division "GD" - 13. Kp. /Panzer Regiment "GD" (15)

Panzer Abteilung 503 (45)
Panzer Abteilung 505 (31)
1.Kp./Panzer Abteilung 502 (14)

Source: Thomas L. Jentz - Die deutsche Panzertruppe Band 2
(The German Armoured Forces Part 2)

Regards

Martin
Martin

Timo
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Re: Which unit ?

Post by Timo » 22 Apr 2002 13:17

Rasputin17 wrote:On the assumption that this picture was taken at Kursk......

The Tigers present at Kursk were deployed in the following formations:
The numbers of the Tigers in the formations are in brackets

1. SS Panzer Grenadier Division LAH - 13. Kp./1. SS Panzer Regiment (13)
2. SS Panzer Grenadier Division DR - s. Kp./2. SS Panzer Regiment (14)
3. SS Panzer Grenadier Division T - 9. Kp./3. SS Panzer Regiment (15)

Panzergrenadier Division "GD" - 13. Kp. /Panzer Regiment "GD" (15)

Panzer Abteilung 503 (45)
Panzer Abteilung 505 (31)
1.Kp./Panzer Abteilung 502 (14)

Source: Thomas L. Jentz - Die deutsche Panzertruppe Band 2
(The German Armoured Forces Part 2)

Regards

Martin


I know, I have that book too. But which of them is it, if this is indeed Kursk (Prochorovka?). Not Grossdeutschland, they were not SS.

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Juha Hujanen
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Tiger

Post by Juha Hujanen » 22 Apr 2002 14:31

According to Chris Mann-ss totenkopf and in Robert Michulec-waffen ss from glory to defeat 1943-1945, grenadiers are from totenkopf and in Kursk.

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Polynike
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Re: Which unit ?

Post by Polynike » 22 Apr 2002 15:09

Timo wrote:
Rasputin17 wrote:On the assumption that this picture was taken at Kursk......

The Tigers present at Kursk were deployed in the following formations:
The numbers of the Tigers in the formations are in brackets

1. SS Panzer Grenadier Division LAH - 13. Kp./1. SS Panzer Regiment (13)
2. SS Panzer Grenadier Division DR - s. Kp./2. SS Panzer Regiment (14)
3. SS Panzer Grenadier Division T - 9. Kp./3. SS Panzer Regiment (15)

Panzergrenadier Division "GD" - 13. Kp. /Panzer Regiment "GD" (15)

Panzer Abteilung 503 (45)
Panzer Abteilung 505 (31)
1.Kp./Panzer Abteilung 502 (14)

Source: Thomas L. Jentz - Die deutsche Panzertruppe Band 2
(The German Armoured Forces Part 2)

Regards

Martin


is that book available in english?

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Marcus
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Re: Which unit ?

Post by Marcus » 22 Apr 2002 16:52

Polynike wrote:is that book available in english?


Yes.

Image Image

"Panzertruppen: The Complete Guide 1933-1942" and "Panzertruppen: The Complete Guide 1943-1945" by Thomas L. Jentz.

/Marcus

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admfisher
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PzSchAbt 503

Post by admfisher » 22 Apr 2002 19:53

Am I mistaken or did the duel balkenkruz on the rommel box of the lead tiger at least show these Tigers are from Kursk.

The duel balkenkruz was used by PzSchAbt 503, only at Kursk as far I know.

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Polynike
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Post by Polynike » 22 Apr 2002 21:29

thanks marcus. two questions are they readily available in europe and are they recommendable?. thanks again

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 22 Apr 2002 21:35

Polynike wrote:thanks marcus. two questions are they readily available in europe and are they recommendable?. thanks again


Yes, they are available in Europe, you can get them at Amazon.co.uk for example.
I've just bought them, but the parts of them I've looked into are very good.

/Marcus

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admfisher
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Must read

Post by admfisher » 23 Apr 2002 00:19

PanzerTruppen I starts with the creation of the panzertrupp and its tanks. It covers the political infighting, the pains in designing the tanks, and most important the what and why of how the first panzer divisons were built.
Once into the war you start getting records of recemmendations on formations to weapons.
There are some nice surprises if you read the whole book, like the comments on using the PzII 2cm gun in Norway. Or the deployment of the Neubau Pz,Kpfw IV with Pz Abt z.b.V40.
There are tables on just about everything in these two books, covering the weapons vs weapons, tanks tables of the nations of concern. And best of all plenty of great photos.
Book I takes you to Chapter 20 : Operations in Russia - Through October 1942.

PanzerTruppen II picks up from where number 1 left off.
The new tanks designs the battles, in the Reich and out of it. The coverage given to the Tigers and Panther is decent and you will learn some nice tid bits from there.
Overall the book covers the same as before but in the years that are effected. The changing of the Pz Div.'s, the smaller battle groups and the handling of these tanks is covered very well.
The book does leave you asking for more, this is where Jentz is smart, the third book is Tiger I & II: Combat Tatics.

If you are serious about learning facts on the Panzer Truppen these books are a must, but do not expect the details that would come from a book such as The Spielberger German Armor and Military Vechiles series. Spielberger's book cover the tanks one by one top to bottom, Jentz cover the PanzerTrupp.

Grant

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Polynike
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Post by Polynike » 23 Apr 2002 17:47

ive just ordered the first part from amazon will get part two next month

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