SS Soldiers

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm and Fallschirmjäger and the other Luftwaffe ground forces. Hosted by Christoph Awender.
Post Reply
User avatar
ZackdeBlanc
Member
Posts: 239
Joined: 10 Apr 2002, 03:07
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

SS Soldiers

#1

Post by ZackdeBlanc » 23 Mar 2003, 07:43

I have a question regarding the Waffen-SS corps during WW2.

In the Heer (as in every other army in the world) there is a distinction between the enlisted and officer corps. The officer corps, composed of soldiers with usually with college degrees, is somewhat of the administration/leadership of the army. Lieutenants, Captains, Majors, Colonels and Generals are all officers. The enlisted corps are soldiers who generally follow orders, in most armies the majority of soldiers are enlisted. Of course, this is a simplification but I just wanted to explain it.

Did this distinction exist within the Waffen-SS? I have heard as all SS soldiers referred to in history books as "SS Officers", but in most armies officers are outnumbered by the enlisted soldiers. The Waffen SS was an army, from what I have heard. So, my question is, was there a distinction between commissioned officers and enlisted soldiers in the Waffen SS? Or were all SS soldiers officers? Please, someone with some knowledge in this subject, answer.

~Zack White
[email protected]

User avatar
Robert Rojas
In memoriam
Posts: 2658
Joined: 19 Nov 2002, 05:29
Location: Pleasant Hill, California - U.S.A.
Contact:

RE: S.S. Soldiers

#2

Post by Robert Rojas » 23 Mar 2003, 09:33

Greetings to both brother ZackdeBlanc and the community as a whole. In respect to your inquiry of Sunday - March 23, 2003 - 6:43am, I see you've had a little bad luck generating responses to your previous WEHRMACHT AT WAR AND PEACE thread entitled S.S. OFFICERS created on Wednesday - March 12, 2003 - 8:49am. Quite frankly, I am mystified over the glaring lack of interest your particular inquiries are attracting. Given this forum's inordinate fascination with all things Schutzstaffel, I am rather surprised your inquiries have not triggered an avalanche of responses. Hopefully, you will have more luck attracting more interest with your "new" and "improved" thread entitled as S.S. SOLDIERS. I do wish you the best of luck with your enterprise - YOU'LL NEED IT! In anycase, I would like to bid you a wonderful day down on the ever politically correct campus of the University of California at Eugene.

Best Regards From The Peoples Republic of Eugene!
Uncle Bob 8)


Timo
Member
Posts: 3869
Joined: 09 Mar 2002, 23:09
Location: Europe

Re: SS Soldiers

#3

Post by Timo » 23 Mar 2003, 09:53

ZackdeBlanc wrote:I have heard as all SS soldiers referred to in history books as "SS Officers", but in most armies officers are outnumbered by the enlisted soldiers.
Don't know your source for the assumption that all SS soldiers were officers, but the Waffen-SS was organized like all other armies in WW2. CO's, NCO's and the main body of enlisted men.

See also: http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/ss-grader-w.htm

User avatar
ZackdeBlanc
Member
Posts: 239
Joined: 10 Apr 2002, 03:07
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

#4

Post by ZackdeBlanc » 25 Mar 2003, 04:52

Thank you for your response, but my main point is that I continually hear ALL ss men referred to as "SS Officers" and that is why I was confused, I have never heard SS men referred to as "SS NCOs", rather most history books and TV specials refer to all SS men as "SS Officers"

~Zack White
[email protected]

CHRISCHA
Member
Posts: 2477
Joined: 28 Jan 2003, 19:21
Location: England, Kent

#5

Post by CHRISCHA » 27 Mar 2003, 00:01

I think I know what you mean. I've seen pictures of SS men holding back crowds, guarding political prisoners, etc. with a caption of SS officers. I think the term officer is used here as in the same context as police officer.

User avatar
Tom Houlihan
Member
Posts: 3983
Joined: 06 Oct 2002, 06:53
Location: MI, USA
Contact:

SS Officers

#6

Post by Tom Houlihan » 27 Mar 2003, 02:59

There is also the option that (believe it or not) some of the people doing the narration and/or caption writing don't really know what they're talking about!

User avatar
Brig
Member
Posts: 4708
Joined: 08 Sep 2002, 02:42
Location: Iraq

#7

Post by Brig » 28 Mar 2003, 02:47

Of course they weren't all officers! They had the same type of system as the Wehrmacht, even though they were a political army.

Also, it's not true that college degrees were a big part of officer requirements. During the Third Reich, soldiers were promoted by capabilities. In WWI, most officers were aristocrats but Hitler, being poor, believed in promotion by capability. Even if you were an aristocrat, but a crappy soldier, you could remain low in the ranks your entire career.

Rommel, for instance, is one of the most well-known examples. He received the highest rank of Field Marshal General, and he came from a middle class family and was basically a failure at school. He went on to command detachments of the SS, train HJ, lead a Panzer Division into France, capture numerous Frenchmen in WWI with just a few men, and lead the distinguished Afrika Korps, all the while earning the respect of both allies and axis forces!

Even today's modern leaders and the old soldiers of the war, especially the Reich, speak with pride of Rommel. Education adn class had practically nothing to do with officer requirements in the Third Reich

User avatar
K.Kocjancic
Member
Posts: 6788
Joined: 27 Mar 2003, 20:57
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

#8

Post by K.Kocjancic » 28 Mar 2003, 22:47

ZackdeBlanc, I presume, that you don't speak German, because this is a basic mistake of non-german speaking.

Word "officer" is english version of german word "der Führer", which means leader. All W-SS, SS-TVB and A-SS ranks came from non-military ranks of SA. The SA-ranks weren't army-ranks, but a denomination of position in SA. So, rank SS-Obersturmführer literally means "higher leader of sturm (unit, seize of company)".

W-SS rank were adapt to military ranks of German army. These ranks are:
- SS-Oberstgruppenführer und Generaloberst der W-SS
- SS-Obergruppenführer und General der W-SS
- SS-Gruppenführer und Generalleutnant der W-SS
- SS-Brigadeführer und Generalmajor der W-SS
- SS-Oberführer
- SS-Standartenführer
- SS-Obersturmbannführer
- SS-Sturmbannführer
- SS-Hauptsturmführer
- SS-Obersturmführer
- SS-Untersturmführer
- SS-Oberstandartenführer
- SS-Sturmscharführer
- SS-Hauptscharführer
- SS-Oberscharführer
- SS-Scharführer
- SS-Standartenjunker
- SS-Unterscharführer
- SS-Stabsrottenführer
- SS-Rottenführer
- SS-Sturmann
- SS-Oberschütze
- SS-Schütze
- SS-Bewerber.

As you can see, you have 19 ranks of 24, in which is word "Führer". But only ranks from SS-Untersturmführer to SS-Oberführer are ranks of officer's.

Best regards,
Kocjo

User avatar
ZackdeBlanc
Member
Posts: 239
Joined: 10 Apr 2002, 03:07
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

#9

Post by ZackdeBlanc » 29 Mar 2003, 06:59

Thanks, that clarifies things! I do not speak German, but I am learning it so one day I will pick up on those nuances!

-- Zachary White
[email protected]

User avatar
StG-44
Member
Posts: 61
Joined: 14 Mar 2003, 16:45
Location: Austria
Contact:

#10

Post by StG-44 » 31 Mar 2003, 16:59

:o i'm not familiar with the shortcut CO's and NCO's.. ;)
can somebody give me a hand? thanks! :)

Grüsse
christian

User avatar
Hans N
Member
Posts: 292
Joined: 01 Apr 2002, 16:40
Location: Sweden

#11

Post by Hans N » 31 Mar 2003, 17:29

CO = Commissioned Officer or Commanding Officer (Offiziere)

NCO = Non-Commissioned Officer (Unter-Offiziere)

User avatar
Robert Rojas
In memoriam
Posts: 2658
Joined: 19 Nov 2002, 05:29
Location: Pleasant Hill, California - U.S.A.
Contact:

RE: S.S. Soldiers

#12

Post by Robert Rojas » 31 Mar 2003, 17:35

Greetings to both citizen StG44 and the community as a whole. In reference to your inquiry of Monday - March 31, 2003 - 3:59pm, I believe the acronyms of "CO" and "NCO" are respectively interpreted as COMMISSIONED OFFICER and NONCOMMISSIONED OFFICER. However, it would be best if citizen Timo Worst provided his own clarification on these acronyms (refer Sunday - March 23, 2003 - 8:53am). I would not want to put words into the gentleman's mouth. I hope this little blurb has addressed your inquiry. In anycase, I would like to bid you a wonderful day over in the Eastern Empire.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob :)

Post Reply

Return to “Heer, Waffen-SS & Fallschirmjäger”