Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm and Fallschirmjäger and the other Luftwaffe ground forces. Hosted by Christoph Awender.
RFVD11
Member
Posts: 56
Joined: 16 Feb 2012 13:41

Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Post by RFVD11 » 30 Apr 2012 12:17

I have this unit in Kurland in April, 1945. Anyone have further info?
Thanks
Last edited by Dieter Zinke on 30 Apr 2012 13:11, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: correct designation as a help for research

User avatar
Heimatschuss
Member
Posts: 2597
Joined: 22 May 2006 22:50
Location: Deutschland

Re: Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Post by Heimatschuss » 03 May 2012 22:30

Hello RFVD11,

there's an autobiography available of one of the officers belonging to the divisional HQ of Gruppe von Gise (Bogg, 2002). It contains some scattered details on this Divisionsgruppe von Gise (or 'Division Oberst von Giese' as Bogg calls it). I've only glanced over the snippets available via Google Books (http://tinyurl.com/blq36bo). There may be more information in the full book.

According to Bogg Gruppe von Gise was also known as Kampfgruppe 130 (Bogg, p.12). Since Bogg mentions belonging to a Sicherungsregiment several times I think this was Sicherungsregiment 130. There's a little bit of information on this unit in Lexikon der Wehrmacht http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... g130-R.htm . Actually the regiment was only a regimental HQ operating in the area of 18. Armee that had various minor units subordinated depending on its current task.

According to Bogg (p. 12) this staff in March/April 1945 commanded the following units:
Füsilierbataillon 126 (Hauptmann Hutterich)
13. Litauisches Batallion
2 Kompanien Landesschützen

[Fusileer Battalion 126 under Cpt. Hutterich
13th Lithuanian Battalion
2 companies of Landesschützen]

Their combat sector began at a swamp directly east of Lake Grobin, ran along the southern shore of Lake Grobin and stretched out till the Baltic Sea (Bogg, p.12). There's a small town Grobin/Grobina in Courland, 10 kilometers east of
Libau/Liepaja. The combat sector presumably didn't reach the open sea but only the Libau lagoon which ‪seperates
Libau from the mainland.

References:

Bogg, Johann Leopold
Geraubt. Zehn Jahre und ein Monat
Books on Demand; Norderstedt; 2002
http://tinyurl.com/blq36bo

Best regards
Torsten

RFVD11
Member
Posts: 56
Joined: 16 Feb 2012 13:41

Re: Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Post by RFVD11 » 04 May 2012 10:56

Thanks alot!

User avatar
Heimatschuss
Member
Posts: 2597
Joined: 22 May 2006 22:50
Location: Deutschland

Re: Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Post by Heimatschuss » 10 Jun 2012 15:18

Hello,

some more information on this mysterious unit.

The commander of Gruppe von Gi(e)se was Oberst Ernst August Freiherr von Gise.

The German War Graves Commission has this entry (http://www.volksbund.de):
Nachname: Freiherr von Giese
Vorname: Ernst August Maximilian Josef
Dienstgrad: Oberstleutnant
Geburtsdatum: 17.07.1888
Geburtsort: Schweinfurt
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 08.05.1945
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Bernati

Ernst August Maximilian Josef Freiherr von Giese wurde noch nicht auf einen vom Volksbund errichteten Soldatenfriedhof überführt.

Nach den uns vorliegenden Informationen befindet sich sein Grab derzeit noch an folgendem Ort:
Bernati - Lettland
According to GoogleMaps there's a hamlet Bernāti in Nica County, 16 kilometers south of Libau/Liepaja.

Various nobility catalogues give the name of the same man as Ernst August Freiherr von Gise.
http://www.geneall.net/D/per_page.php?id=155673
http://thepeerage.com/p6514.htm#i65136
http://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/Part48.htm

A very few details on his military career from http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic ... 2d0#180999:
Major (E) 01.09.35 von GISE Ernst (Kom. Erg.Bat.Geb.Jäg.Reg.98) Oberst (01.04.42)
According to Ernst Merk who was chief of staff of AOK 18 Freiherr von Gise was KIA when Soviet forces attempted a last coup against Libau on May 8th, 1945 (Merk, 2005, p.11)

For the Lithuanian battallion I've found this (http://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/threa ... post166182):
Litauische Polizei Btl. F/13 FPNr. 12951
03.07.1941 created TDA Bn. 1
09.08.1941 reformed as Hilfspolizei (PPT) Btl 1. Kaunas (from 3., 4. and 5. coys TDA Bn. 1)
20.12.1941 renamed Schuma Btl F/13/ Schutzmannschaft Bataillon 13 (litauisches) (Kauen)
Juli 1942 bei Korück 584/ AOK 16
00.09.1942 strengthened by Lithuanian Schuma Hundertschaften of sec. lieutnants Petras Mikelskas and Benediktas Garlauskas („Umbenannt aus den 1942 errichteten litauischen Hundertschaften Mikelskas und Garlauskas“ laut Tessin/ Kannapin, S. 639)
12.09.1942 bis 31.12.1942 bei Korück 584/ AOK 16 nachgewiesene militärische Unterstellung
01.01.1943 bis 22.2.1943 bei Korück 584/ AOK 16 nachgewiesen
September 1944 in der Feldpostübersicht gelöscht,
22.10.1944 bei 12.Lw.Felddiv., XXXXIII.AK, AOK 16 unterstellt.
November 1944 wieder in die Feldpostübersicht eingetragen (Tessin/ Kannapin, S. 639)
06.11.1944 bis 24.11.1944 bei 126.InfDiv, I. AK, AOK 18 unterstellt
29.11.1944 bis 31.12.1944 bei 32.InfDiv., AOK 18 (von 14.- 23.12.1944 als „Gruppe Gen.Lt. Thomaschki“) unterstellt.
Januar 1945 das im Januar 1945 entwaffnete SchumaBtl. 5 (lit.) wird auf Schuma-Btl. 13 und 256 verteilt. (Tessin/ Kannapin, S. 638)
00.01.1945 Zuführung einer neuen 4. Kp. from 3. Kp. Lithuanian. Polizei Btl. 5
08.01.1945 bei X. AK, AOK 18
13.01.1945 bis 28.1.1945 bei 132.Inf.Div., X. AK, AOK 18 unterstellt
19.03.1945 bis 24.3.1945 Sicherungsbereich Pavilosta (Stab Oberst Köhl), AOK 18
28.03.1945 bis 30.3.1945 Gruppe von Gise, X.AK, AOK 18 (Tessin/ Kannapin, S. 639)

Kommandeur:
Oberst Andrius Butkknas 03.07.1941 – 24.07.1941
Major Kazys Šimkus 24.07.1941 – 00.00.0000
Hauptmann Norbertas Gasenas 00.03.1942 – 04.05.1942
DAO Hauptmann d. SchP. Kurt Edelmann

Hauptmann Juozas Truškauskas 04.05.1942 – 13.08.1943
Major Ernestas Bliudnikas 13.08.1942 – 00.09.1943
(auch erst ab 13.9.1943)
DAO Hauptmann d. SchP. Temp

Hauptmann, später Major Jonas Semaška 00.09.1943 – 08.05.1945 (auch bereits am 6.1943 genannt)


Major Antanas STARKUS – MONTE?
Correction:
Bogg must be wrong when he writes the eastern end of the unit's frontline was near Lake Grobin. The positions of Gruppe Gise were 20 km further south. There once was a lake between Jurmalzem and Sikleszem which has been irrigated meanwhile. From there it's about 5 km to the Baltic Sea, more than enough for a unit of regimental size to defend. That also would explain Bernati as Gise's place of death.
http://www.mapywig.org/m/German_maps/18 ... _Libau.jpg

References:

Merk, Ernst
Schwere Jahre auf der Höhe des Lebens.
Books on Demand; Norderstedt; 2005
http://tinyurl.com/bpy9t3w

Best regards
Torsten

Rossano
Member
Posts: 3584
Joined: 25 May 2007 23:56
Location: Italy

Re: Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Post by Rossano » 10 Dec 2012 16:34

Heimatschuss wrote:Hello RFVD11,
.........................
According to Bogg (p. 12) this staff in March/April 1945 commanded the following units:
Füsilierbataillon 126 (Hauptmann Hutterich)
13. Litauisches Batallion
2 Kompanien Landesschützen

[Fusileer Battalion 126 under Cpt. Hutterich
13th Lithuanian Battalion
2 companies of Landesschützen]
.................................
Hello,

not Hutterich (Füs.Btl.126) but "Hummerich" correct.

Regards

User avatar
wschroedter
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: 03 Dec 2009 22:11
Location: Dortmund

Re: Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Post by wschroedter » 09 May 2019 17:27

Hello,

happy to find all this information. May I add, from the wartime diary of my father (the relevant part will be uploaded soon), another unit of Group Gise:

East to the Latvian unit was positoned of which my father commanded the 1st company.

My father indicates that the above mentioned Latvian batallion was positioned between the Baltic Sea at JURMALCIEMS and PEIPAS.
The front line of the adjacent Korps-MG-Bataillon 410 ran along the street from PEIPAS to the east, till the street running north-southerly; 1st comany to the west (with wet land before and behind them), 2nd company to the east (on solid land already); 3rd company (my father's former command) had already been destroyed in February near PREEKULN (while he, thank God, was in hospital).
Next to the east (in the woods) was an artillery unit which had lost their guns.

Gr. Oberst v. Gise is to be found on this OKW Situation Map

Keep up the good work!
-Winfried

Rossano
Member
Posts: 3584
Joined: 25 May 2007 23:56
Location: Italy

Re: Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Post by Rossano » 09 May 2019 21:24

Hello Winfried
Did Your father report in his memories who was (or were) the cdr(s). of the Korps-MGB. Berlin later 410 ?
Thanks, Rossano

User avatar
wschroedter
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: 03 Dec 2009 22:11
Location: Dortmund

Cdr Korps-MG-Bataillon Berlin, 410

Post by wschroedter » 10 May 2019 10:29

Hello Rossano,

the name of the first Commander of Korps-MG-Bataillon Berlin from beginning of December 1944 is not mentioned. However, he is decribed like this:
  • Bataillonsführer ist ein zierlicher Hauptmann, im Zivilberuf evangelischer Pastor. Er ist ruhig und zuvorkommend, soll aber ein Nazi sein.
  • Batallion commander is a a petite captain, in civilian life Protestant pastor. He is calm and obliging, but is said to be a Nazi.
From March 1945
  • Cdr Korps-MG-Bataillon 410 was Hauptmann Dietsch.
  • Adjutant was Leutnant von Bartenwerffer about whom I'll get more information soon, via a relative of his.
See their signatures at https://vexilli.net/w/Tagebuch-Fotos#Soldbuch23

Greetings,
Winfried
Last edited by wschroedter on 10 May 2019 13:12, edited 2 times in total.

Rossano
Member
Posts: 3584
Joined: 25 May 2007 23:56
Location: Italy

Re: Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Post by Rossano » 10 May 2019 12:06

Hello Winfried
Vielen Dank, sehr nett !
Unfortunately the descriptions given don´t help me locate that Hptm. (first Kdr.)
Couldn´t be that it was from the beginning already Hptm. Dietsche ?
Rgds., Rossano

User avatar
wschroedter
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: 03 Dec 2009 22:11
Location: Dortmund

Re: Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Post by wschroedter » 10 May 2019 13:12

Rossano wrote:
10 May 2019 12:06
Couldn´t be that it was from the beginning already Hptm. Dietsche ?
No, Rossano, I fear it couldn't be the same. Dietsch (sorry for the earlier misprint of the name) is characterized completely different, as follows:
  • Der Bataillonsführer Hauptmann Dietsch ist ein immer lustiger Sachse mit frechem Mundwerk und vielen kaum salonfähigen Witzen.
  • The battalion commander Captain Dietsch is an always funny Saxon with cheeky mouth and many jokes barely acceptable.


Additionally I found his full name and address. My father gives it as:
  • Dietsch, Günter, Greiz (Thüringen), Admiral-Scheer-Str. 30
He is obviously identical with Günther Dietsch. The street has indeed been renamed 1945/48.

-Winfried

Rossano
Member
Posts: 3584
Joined: 25 May 2007 23:56
Location: Italy

Re: Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Post by Rossano » 10 May 2019 14:11

Hello Winfried
Nochmals vielen Dank, I do appreciate
Rgds., Rossano

User avatar
wschroedter
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: 03 Dec 2009 22:11
Location: Dortmund

Re: Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Post by wschroedter » 29 Nov 2019 20:49

Heimatschuss wrote:
10 Jun 2012 15:18
DAO Hauptmann d. SchP. Kurt Edelmann
DAO Hauptmann d. SchP. Temp
Hallo Torsten,

was bitte bedeutet DAO?

Gruß!
Winfried

User avatar
wschroedter
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: 03 Dec 2009 22:11
Location: Dortmund

Re: Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Post by wschroedter » 30 Nov 2019 00:53

Heimatschuss wrote:
03 May 2012 22:30
Their combat sector began at a swamp directly east of Lake Grobin, ran along the southern shore of Lake Grobin and stretched out till the Baltic Sea (Bogg, p.12).
Hello Torsten,

as you wrote after the above cited post, the front line was more to the south.

My dad fought there in the last weeks of the war. On this map: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/de/map/ta ... 76/21.0434 which I made to show all his positions you see a road. This road constitutes the last front line. The positions of my dad's company were along the road and in what was a swamp back then, streching to the north to Lake Mekes which is dried out now.

Bogg simply mistook Lake Mekes for Lake Grobin!

BTW I ordered his book and promise to report any new findings.

To collect and describe all about Gise and his Group I made a web page within the project for my dad's diary: https://www.vexilli.net/w/Freiherr_Erns ... f_von_Gise

It contains all of this thread and that about himself (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=244668).

I hope for all your approval!

Best wishes,
Winfried

User avatar
wschroedter
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: 03 Dec 2009 22:11
Location: Dortmund

Re: Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Post by wschroedter » 10 Dec 2019 11:09

Heimatschuss wrote:
03 May 2012 22:30
...
According to Bogg Gruppe von Gise was also known as Kampfgruppe 130
---
Bogg, Johann Leopold
Geraubt. Zehn Jahre und ein Monat
Books on Demand; Norderstedt; 2002
Hello Torsten, hello Y'All,

in the meantime I bought the book. In my edition (Verlag Lagerkreis Rewda, Wien 1994) the page numbering is different.

So I am able to correct one of your details.

Bogg writes that he was aide de camp (p. 267) in the "regiment level" staff of Kampfgruppe 130 (p. 10). Kampfgruppe 130 was subordinated (not identical) (p. 10, 11) to Gruppe Oberst von Gise (which he calls division without number).

I collected everything about Gise and Group Gise on my page https://www.vexilli.net/w/Freiherr_Erns ... on_Gise/en

Best wishes,
Winfried

User avatar
wschroedter
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: 03 Dec 2009 22:11
Location: Dortmund

Re: Division (Gruppe) [Oberst von] Gise

Post by wschroedter » 10 Dec 2019 11:23

Hello Torsten,

you did a great job in finding all the dates and postings. However, there is a problem regarding 1942 or 1943:
Heimatschuss wrote:
10 Jun 2012 15:18
Kommandeur:
...
Hauptmann Juozas Truškauskas 04.05.1942 – 13.08.1943
Major Ernestas Bliudnikas 13.08.1942 – 00.09.1943
And about this man, only a question:
Heimatschuss wrote:
10 Jun 2012 15:18
Major Antanas STARKUS – MONTE?
Does the question mark mean you are not sure about the name or if he was a commander or that you didn't find a date?

Best wishes!
Winfried

Return to “Heer, Waffen-SS & Fallschirmjäger”