BillHermann wrote:You are only seeing what you want to see. I never said that they all were at the camps.
I've explained clearly why your sentence "It is the fiction that they had no role in the camps or were men of an organization that had no political affiliation." was misleading.
BillHermann wrote:You are assuming this because you obviously feel a level of passion and interest towards the Waffen-SS.
Incorrect...and this is indicative of the mistaken approach that you seem to be labouring under Bill. I have an interest in the subject I've been studying for nigh on 30 years i.e. the Second World War, of which the Waffen SS is but a part.
BillHermann wrote:Some how them being involved is a bad thing which it is but you have to accept it. Again as I said before I know they were not all bad, I am talking about the organization, it's roots and it's administration role in the late war period not the men. This is fact and we know this.
The problem with that type of approach is that it leads one to incorrect conclusions and colours the view terribly. It's fine if one has a "History Channel" level of interest, but delving deeper requires a more intense approach. Labelling organisations is dodgy as it labels the men under those organisations. This is why it's wrong to believe that the Waffen SS was a "criminal" organisation, on the basis that the SS was labelled as such. It's perhaps unfortunate that the men of the Waffen SS even had SS in its title. Perhaps if their title was different, the view of them by some people would be different too. Organisations have different levels of people and involvement and assuming everyone in a given organisation is fully paid up, or shares exactly the same views etc is, by and large, a mistake.
It's really just an extension of "all Germans were nazis".
It's really just an extention of "all Germans were nazis".
BillHermann wrote:Many of the younger ones did have real affiliations with the party and the SS as they grew up in the Nazi state. Many who were in the Hitler Youth. The 12-SS was particularly fanatical, they were very much all about the movement...
Says who? There were some in the 12th that were "fanatics", but there were also people in the ranks that "found" themselves there too. Again, you're are making the mistake of lumping in large groups of people into a single bracket and it's an awful way to approach anything. Many, many people went through Hitlerjugen and didn't have hardened fanatical nazi views. It was compulsory for all German boys to join, so it's a mistake to assume that just because anyone was in the Hitler Youth, that they were political views, or views of any sort were hard and fast.
BillHermann wrote:The traditions and culture were the jobs of senior members to share. This is especially the role of the senior NCOs who work with the junior ranks. As a former member of my countries forces I was expected to uphold my units traditions and respect my Queen and country. Why would this not be the same for the Waffen-SS. Even the Wehrmacht had to uphold these values.
My father was in the Royal Engineers during the war. He pledged allegiance to the Queen of England. He didn't give a toss about the Queen of any nation. The same can be said of my Grandfather and his two brothers who served in the First World War.
Many men of the Waffen SS DID NOT share the opinions of Germany's leaders and as said earlier, the Waffen SS drew its ranks from many different countries, each with very different outlooks. To repeat, if there's ONE thing that drew the majority of men to Waffen SS service, it was anti Communism. A sentiment that was shared by a great deal of Western Europe.
The men of the Waffen SS had a huge number of reasons for joining, that differed greatly, even among the German servicemen.
BillHermann wrote:For being such a staunch defender of the Waffen-SS I am stunned you don't know more of this.
Oh tut tut...a "staunch defender" ?
So, that's me labelled as well eh?