Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in FULL

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history1
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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by history1 » 20 Sep 2012 09:20

Nice list, Germanicus. What´s your source?
It can´t be the books by Tessin because of the misspellings, e.g. "..korp" instead of "..korps", Panzerjager instead Panzerjäger, Generalkommandos instead Generalkommando, no idea what a Luftgausrübe can be, Festungs-Regiment-Stäb what should be most likely Festungs-Regiment-Stab, etcc.
Just a few thoughts from a guy who´s not famliar with the Order of Battle during WWII.

Max Payload
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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by Max Payload » 20 Sep 2012 10:05

An amazing list!
Thanks for posting it.

Germanicus
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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by Germanicus » 20 Sep 2012 12:12

Dear History 1 re your comments....
Nice list, Germanicus. What´s your source?
It can´t be the books by Tessin because of the misspellings, e.g. "..korp" instead of "..korps", Panzerjager instead Panzerjäger, Generalkommandos instead Generalkommando, no idea what a Luftgausrübe can be, Festungs-Regiment-Stäb what should be most likely Festungs-Regiment-Stab, etcc.
Just a few thoughts from a guy who´s not famliar with the Order of Battle during WWII.
It is from Tessin and obviously you have the books so go to Volume 1 Page 3 A . Kommandobehörden and you will see Luftgausrübe z.b.V. ...12th line down.

As for the typo's you are correct in pointing out the typos, the wonders of a modern word processor. As I stated in the original opening I believe I recommended to adjust accordingly or words to that affect. You are Austrian so are well versed in the language however, i defy you to go any where on the net to find this list. Any where. In fact I defy you to show me in one area of the internet or a book where I or any one else can find this information. Yes there are some errors that is for people to work around not too hard. However the point of being on a forum such as this is to help each other I thought. Not bound around with ego. I can easily go through the list re-vet the whole thing and re - post. Not too hard. In fact even you could do that History 1...

All I was doing was posting in one area the complete list of Tessin. Not even Tessin did this. In fact I don't think any one has done this... In full word in one area. I was just trying to as is stated in the Board Index.... How to help this site grow. I have copied page 3 for you. I hope this gets to you. History 1 the best way to help some one is with tact, not sarcasm. You could hav written something like... wow great list howvere there are some errors but overall well done. You could have highlighted the errors and I would have been greatful, others could have read your helpfull comments and adjusted accordingly. I can easily not contribute to the site and go somewhere else. Not too hard. Sorry.

Most respectfully
Last edited by Germanicus on 20 Sep 2012 12:37, edited 1 time in total.

Germanicus
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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by Germanicus » 20 Sep 2012 12:36

History 1 My error.... it should be Luftgaustäbe, not Luftgausrübe. Rübe I believe is a vegetable called a turnip. LOL. My copy is old and it took a long time to compile the list and as I stated in my original email, time to get a new computer.

:-)

Most respectfully

Mark

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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by Larry D. » 20 Sep 2012 12:50

Hmmm...........I guess I can give the author of this compendium a good grade for ambition and effort, but I sure wish he had discussed this with others here before posting this seemingly endless list that is of somewhat questionable value. We could have saved him a lot of time and effort.

For starters, the entire work of Georg Tessin covering the Wehrmacht in World War II and the late 1930’s can be found on this web site: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/ .

For those after detailed data on units of the Luftwaffe, we of course would go here: http://www.ww2.dk/ .

Additionally, Marcus Wendel’s Axis History Factbook has a great deal of detail on most of the larger Axis units ( http://www.axishistory.com/ ) as do a number of other sites.

So I am at a loss concerning the value of this list that has nothing to say about each unit except for its name which, as history1 has pointed out, is often misspelled. I think the author should have stayed with his list of Volkssturm units, since a definitive list of these would definitely be new and a contribution.

Larry

Germanicus
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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by Germanicus » 20 Sep 2012 13:36

Hmmm...........I guess I can give the author of this compendium a good grade for ambition and effort, but I sure wish he had discussed this with others here [WHY] before posting this seemingly endless list that is of somewhat questionable value. [Why is it somewhat questionable value] We could have saved him a lot of time and effort.

For starters, the entire work of Georg Tessin covering the Wehrmacht in World War II and the late 1930’s can be found on this web site: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/ . [False the web site is not finshed... look for yourself]

For those after detailed data on units of the Luftwaffe, we of course would go here: http://www.ww2.dk/ . [False still not finished]

Additionally, Marcus Wendel’s Axis History Factbook has a great deal of detail on most of the larger Axis units ( http://www.axishistory.com/ ) as do a number of other sites. [Still not complete]

So I am at a loss concerning the value of this list that has nothing to say about each unit except for its name which, as history1 has pointed out, is often misspelled. [Errors have been fixed, the beauty of this forum is that there is an edit ability, ask History1 to check out what he was complaining about] I think the author should have stayed with his list of Volkssturm units, [Why are you being nasty... do you not want new contributors or is this just a superiority thing] since a definitive list of these would definitely be new and a contribution. [So you are telling me my contribution is pointless....]

Larry [Mark]

history1
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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by history1 » 20 Sep 2012 13:45

Germanicus wrote:History 1 My error.... it should be Luftgaustäbe, not Luftgausrübe. Rübe I believe is a vegetable called a turnip. LOL. [...] :-)
Most respectfully
Mark
Thanks for clearing that up Mark!
I can you assure that I didn´t have a clue what that word " Luftgausrübe" could mean, though I speak German ;-)
And ref. your remark about sharing and helping each other you may take a look in my posts (cause you got a wrong impression from myself, IMHO).
I don´t own the books just know them from my military library.

Regards to Oz,
Roman

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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by Larry D. » 20 Sep 2012 13:55

:lol: :lol: :lol: You can refute the veracity of my comments all you want, Germanicus, but the majority of members here will agree with what I've said. All postings here on AHF are subject to critique and commentary, but they must conform to the rules. I have stated my opinion, FWIW. As for the Lexikon der Wehrmacht and Michael Holm sites not being complete, neither is your list complete. Do you really think Tessin is 100% complete? It's the incompleteness of Tessin that prompts many of the threads here on AHF and on other sites. I will take the Lexikon and the Holm sites any day over your "list". At least they provide some information about the units. That's all I have to say to you. If you don't like what I have said, go read the rules and then take it up with Marcus Wendel or a moderator.

L.

Germanicus
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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by Germanicus » 20 Sep 2012 13:58

Dear Roman.... I wish to thank you for your response....please accept my greetings as mutual.

Thanks for clearing that up Mark!
I can you assure that I didn´t have a clue what that word " Luftgausrübe" could mean, though I speak German ;-)
And ref. your remark about sharing and helping each other you may take a look in my posts (cause you got a wrong impression from myself, IMHO).
I don´t own the books just know them from my military library.

Regards to Oz,
Roman
I didn't think trying to post something such as what I posted would have offended anyone. I went through my listing in the forum and editted and took on board your suggestions. If you have more then I am happy to hear so that adjustments can be made accordingly. I am open to criticism as long as it is objective. Placing this list on this forum is not meant to upset any one. I believe I made it quite clear that any suggestions will be appreciated. This listing is just a list.... To some it may mean something and I thought it would be safe to share with others. No hard feelings

Kind regards to Austria

Your mate from OZ

Mark

Mark

Germanicus
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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by Germanicus » 20 Sep 2012 14:13

Larry... Mate

You need to take a pill and calm down... your criticism was to say extraordinary and you were the one that started the arguement. I never asked any one to take my side, I never asked any one to do anything for me except to help. Yet it appears you need others to take your side by saying many will agree with you. Why are you so desperate to berate me. I am not saying that any one needs to take this list over others. I guess if I started a web site and posted the same information you would be touting me as a GOD oh and I changed my name. LOL. I contacted Marcus before i posted this so he can further tell you what I wrote.

Mate I am in Australia, you are in The US of A, its nice knowing that we are worlds apart and always will be, however it is good to know we are Allies.... our countries are! I just posted the email as a guide. I mean I haven't seen these web sites post any books and obviously you have a beef with poor Georg Tessin, oh and me. The websites you herald are incomplete. Your statements are off tap and you should respect other peoples thoughts or intentions. This is a forum, it's not a war and I didn't do anything to deserve what you are doing to me. As for saying Georg Tessin is the reason for these forums etc because of his errors is extreme to say the least.

PS I re-read the rules and no where does it say I can not post this list, no where doe sit say I need to ask any one as long as it is not harmful. No where does it say I have to ask Larry or any one else. However out of courtesy I contacted Marcus... It talks about A. Civility... that speaks for itself.

All the rules say is this....
Also In the research sections of the forum, we ask the posters to be reasonably well-prepared, and not ask others for information which they could easily get for themselves. The purpose of these sections of the forum is to provide a place where historical matters can be intelligently discussed. It is not a research service. You should read this Larry

3. Opinions...

Since the purpose of this section of the forum is to exchange information and hold informed discussions about historical problems, posts which express unsolicited opinions without supporting facts and sources do not promote the purposes of the forum. Consequently, such posts are subject to deletion after a warning to the poster.

F. Miscellaneous

1. Discussions

The research sections of the forum are meant for persons who are fairly well-informed on the topics being discussed, and our discussions are not directed at the lowest common denominator of readership. Rural customs of discourse, such as feigned ignorance, pettifogging, playing at peek-a-boo, or "stonewalling" denials of facts well-known to most informed persons, are strongly disfavored here.

The object of the research sections of the forum is to exchange information, not to engage in dim wrangling as a form of diversion. Our readers are intelligent people, who have already taken the time to inform themselves on the topic under discussion and don't have a lot of time to waste playing games. Shrill and highly polemical posts are also strongly disfavored.
Relax.

Mark

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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by Marcus » 22 Sep 2012 09:39

Drop the personal remarks and get back on topic.

/Marcus

Germanicus
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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by Germanicus » 06 Jul 2013 07:12

I proof read My original post and realised I left out these units. Sorry.

1. Flak-Division
2. Flak-Division
3. Flak-Division
4. Flak-Division
5. Flak-Division
6. Flak-Division
7. Flak-Division
8. Flak-Division
9. Flak-Division
10. Flak-Division
11. Flak-Division
12. Flak-Division
13. Flak-Division
14. Flak-Division
15. Flak-Division
16. Flak-Division
17. Flak-Division
18. Flak-Division
19. Flak-Division
20. Flak-Division
21. Flak-Division
22. Flak-Division
23. Flak-Division
24. Flak-Division
25. Flak-Division
26. Flak-Division
27. Flak-Division
28. Flak-Division
29. Flak-Division
30. Flak-Division

1. Flak-Scheinwerfer Division
2. Flak-Scheinwerfer Division

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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by Panther1 » 06 Jul 2013 14:46

Well Germanicus I will say thank you for your work, it is greatly appreciated by myself and all my friends. It is quite a piece of work, and I am glad it has been done, especially the Waffen SS part.
Some people should take a chill pill before they write things, thanks again.

Iain

Germanicus
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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by Germanicus » 07 Jul 2013 12:03

Dear Panther... Thank you Mate, the reason why I undertook this project, utilising full dialogue, was because I find in many cases, that units are some times abbreviated by writers. I believe this is lazy documenting. Further more I don't believe that this listing has been undertaken before and that it is, I think, a good reference point to build upon. I had the time and I was interested in finding out what was in his listings and thought others may be interested. So I am most pleased, when I receive a response such as yours. The title clearly stated what the subject matter was and I am most aware that the Tessin works are not definitive, however, Tessin undertook a mammoth exercise. However if you use other reference points, a clear picture of the complete order of battle could be gathered more in detail. For instance if you look above, Tessin notes there was 1 - 30 Flak-Divisions. Other works clearly state that there was a 31 Flak-Division. I am aware of other discrepancies and ALL noted historians of repute, hail Tessin, as the penultimate on the subject. Even the Bundesarchive acknowledges Tessin. I have an extensive electronic library on this subject and of the Wehrmacht OOB and this includes ALL Works on the subject from Keilig to you name it, I have it and if i don't, I will get it. You may wish to check out my other post on the Volkssturm OOB, which is quite extensive and as I said in that post, it would be easier to display the complete Order of Battle of German Land Forces in WW2, than it was to cover the Volkssturm. However I gave it my best shot and only wish to assist the members of this forum, further my Feldpost information is now part of the Axis History website, which I am proud of and humbled. I wouId love to tackle that and work out exactly what units are covered in the FP lists and list them in order. I mite make that my next exercise. I just wish to help others such as yourself, as one of the Axis History family. I am not hailing myself as an expert on this, just a most enthusiastic gatherer of details and whilst others collect stamps, we collect information such as this. Take Care My friend and I appreciate your words. Many others did as well and from one Aussie to another, even though I have never met you before..

Thanks you are a true Mate and a Brother.

Most respectfully Mark from Sydney in the Land of Oz...

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Re: Complete German Order Of Battle List by Tessin here in F

Post by AHK » 07 Jul 2013 15:38

What is the 31st Flak Division; is it 31.Flak Division?
Thanks,
AHK

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