Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?

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Marcus
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Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?

Post by Marcus » 21 Apr 2013 11:08

Bundesarchiv lists the below as Waffen-SS units during the Warsaw uprising. Does anyone have any additional information on them such as the units or locations?
Thanks.

Image
Image
Image

/Marcus

joe cleere
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Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?

Post by joe cleere » 21 Apr 2013 19:29

The first two pictures are not of Waffen SS troops, instead they appear to be Army Panzer Grenadiers, probably from 19th Panzer Division. In the third picture, the troops are Waffen SS, as evidenced by the SS collar tabs and the SS camouflage smock, and are probably from 5th SS Panzer Divisioin.

Arto O
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Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?

Post by Arto O » 21 Apr 2013 20:17

In early August 1944, newly established IV. SS-Panzer-Korps, composed of the SS-Panzer-Divisions "Wiking" and "Totenkopf", and the Army´s 19. Panzer-Division, was transferred to the Warsaw area where it launched a counterattack which threw the Russians out of the city and back across the Vistula........The SS-Panzer-Korps was able to help crush the Warsaw uprising.
Roger James Bender: Uniforms, organization and history of the Waffen-SS.
Other well known SS unit were Dirlewanger brigade and RONA, but any of them wore SS runes, neither "Totenkopf" division. So could be "Wiking" or the staff from the IV. SS-Panzer-Korps.
with best regards
Arto

GregSingh
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Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?

Post by GregSingh » 22 Apr 2013 02:22

Most likely first and second pictures were taken east of Warsaw during Radzymin/Okuniew battle with Russians, not Warsaw uprising. They may well be units of 19 Panzer Div. Timeline is the same – early August 1944. Some identification attempts of German photos from Warsaw uprising are here:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Niemi ... szawskiego
Several pictures by Leher allegedly from Warsaw uprising are actually from Grodno, Lituania...

Roger James Bender is not entirely correct. Russians never crossed Vistula river in Warsaw in August 1944, so this statement ‘counterattack which threw the Russians out of the city and back across the Vistula’ is a fiction. He probably refers to Radzymin/Okuniew battle. Also, generally SS-Panzer-Korps was not used to crush the Warsaw uprising.
If we become increasingly humble about how little we know, we may be more eager to search.

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Piotr Mikołajski
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Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?

Post by Piotr Mikołajski » 26 Apr 2013 11:23

Marcus Wendel wrote:Does anyone have any additional information on them such as the units or locations?
Polish sites lists both photos as "outskirts of Warsaw". I guess no better description will be available due to lack of unique buildings.

As for SS units - it seems there were several small SS units in the city at that time. Looking at uniforms it could be one of frontline ones. In most cases this photo is captioned as "Dirlewanger", but collar patches of Dirlewanger are different and clearly visible on photo below.

Image

Personally I don't like Wikipedia but this article (in Polish) is quite well prepared: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si%C5%82y_ ... arszawskim Another one, listing German units with original names, is this one: http://www.powstanie44.spytours.pl - there are few possible "hits".
Best regards,
Piotr Mikołajski

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Marcus
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Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?

Post by Marcus » 26 Apr 2013 14:33

Thanks for the feedback so far.

/Marcus

GregSingh
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Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?

Post by GregSingh » 27 Apr 2013 04:06

I did some digging and looks like Leher(PK) was assigned to 19. Panzer-Division at that time.

According to Glanz and also Polish researcher Wojciech Kempa (based on primary German sources):
[...]On 15 July, due to the critical situation in the East, an order was issued to move the battlegroup of 19. PzD to the Arys (Orzysz – East Prussia) training ground.[...]The first group of units - KGr Beier - was sent from Arys to Grodno on the night of 19/20 July. On 22 July it recaptured Grodno and on the next day was shifted to Bialystok.
The next portion of the units - KGr Stollbrock - was rushed from Arys to the front on 21 July and almost immediately went into action between Grodno and Bialystok.[...]

When Russian 2nd Panzer Army broke between HG Division at Minsk Mazowiecki and 3. SS-Totenkopf in Kaluszyn - Sielce, KGr Beier and KGr Stollbrock were shifted by rail from Bialystok to Rembertow (east of Warsaw) on 26/27 July and 28 July respectively to close the gap. They were followed by a third battlegroup - I./PzGR 73 and III.(s)/PzArtR - that was shipped from Arys by Bialystok on 28/29 July.
From Rembertow units of 19.PzD (KGr Kossmann) were attacking towards Okuniew in order to cut off Russian 3rd Panzer Korps.

When Russians cut Bialystok – Warsaw rail, remaining units of 19. PzD unit were offloaded in Lochow and moved by road to Radzymin via Wyszkow to stop Russian there.

Although it is not confirmed by any official records, most probably Leher(PK) was shifted from Grodno/Bialystok by trains together with KGr Beier and arrived safely in Rembertow before Russian cut off the rail link. So most likely his pictures:
Bundesarchiv Build 101I-695-0407-06 to -27 and Bundesarchiv Build 101I-695-0408-05A to 24A were taken somewhere between Rembertow and Okuniew between 27July and 3 August.
Pictures Bundesarchiv Build 101I-695-0409-027A to -030A were taken in Grodno (Lithuania) on 21/22 July.

All above pictures are labelled Warschauer Aufstand, which is totally incorrect as it contradicts German primary sources!!!
If we become increasingly humble about how little we know, we may be more eager to search.

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Marcus
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Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?

Post by Marcus » 27 Apr 2013 16:22

Thanks again.

/Marcus

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