The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

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Peter
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by Peter » 15 Apr 2015 09:36

possibly ?

Leopold Gangl
Nach den uns vorliegenden Informationen ist Leopold Gangl seit 01.01.1943 vermisst.
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Nachname: Gangl
Vorname: Leopold
Geburtsdatum: 27.02.1922
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Peter
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by Peter » 15 Apr 2015 10:25

Would it be correct to think that younger lads were allowed to volunteer for service before their "call up" date ?
Or would the 17 year old casualties in the spring and summer of 1942 in Russia be lads who somehow managed to join-up under age ?

I have identified a number of examples in this period of 17 year olds (Heer and Waffen SS) and one from the Luftwaffe - killed/died on the Ostfront and a 16 year old with the Kriegsmarine in Germany.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by Sid Guttridge » 15 Apr 2015 11:33

Hi Peter,

Yes. It was by using this loophole that the Waffen-SS was able to recruit under conscription age volunteers for 9th, 10th, 12th, 16th and 17th Divisions in 1943.

The Army, Navy and Air Force also took such under conscription age volunteers. Indeed, the Army alone took more such volunteers than the Waffen-SS in every year class from 1922-1927, except for the 1925 Class, who were largely enlisted in 1943. (See previous paragraph).

Cheers,

Sid.

Peter
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by Peter » 15 Apr 2015 11:40

That's interesting, thanks Sid

Among many examples I'd noted :

SS-Sturmann Eduard Müller born 30 Dec 1924 died 3 May 1942 in Russia
Heer-Gefr Heinz Becker born 5 Mar 1925 died 22 Jun 1942 Blazenik
Schütze Max Josef Koch born 23 Oct 1924 died 3 April 1942 Rschev

I'll have to check back in my notes as I think there were other 1925's.

Peter
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by Peter » 15 Apr 2015 12:28

This lad buried at Kiev was still 16 years old -

Grenadier Walter Müller
born : 29 Mar 1925 at Eich,
died 2 Feb 1942 receiving treatment at 2./Sanko.m.34 b. Nowoje-Greblja

GregSingh
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by GregSingh » 21 Apr 2015 10:26

2. Serbia was under military administration and not part of Germany. The Germans there were no german citizens and not liable to conscription under german military law.
I found a Decree from April 19th 1940 signed by Der Oberbefehlshaber Ost Blaskowitz which allowed admission of German ethnic volunteers from GG into Wehrmacht. They had to be at least 17 years old and not born before 1896.
GG was also not part of Germany, but occupied territory; and you did not have to be a German citizen.

Perhaps similar decrees were issued in other occupied territories. It was long before Waffen-SS recruitment in 1943...
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Reichskriegsgericht
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by Reichskriegsgericht » 21 Apr 2015 15:09

The best work on this topic is 'Die Wehrmacht im Dritten Reich' by Rudolf Absolon (6 vols). He was head óf the Bundesarchiv-Zentralnachweisstelle in Aachen and had access to all Bundesarchiv resources (a wealth of information).

Basically, foreign citizens could join the Wehrmacht as volunteers since 1935. In November 1939, there were further regulations allowing volunteers to join the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS. Absolon lists many other documents, among them the OKW decree from 19.04.1940 (not Blaskowitz, who couldn't decide in that matter) you mention.

And the GG was occupied territory, Serbia wasn't occupied until April 1941. It is IMHO highly unlikely for him to volunteer, be accepted, sent to Germany for training and be in Africa on 01.06.1941.

Theoretically it is possible that Franz Kaiser joined the Wehrmacht as a seventeen year old volunteer before 04.1941. In that case he would have had to travel to Germany, volunteer and be accepted as an ethnic german, be trained and sent to North Africa, all that before 01.06.1941. Also very unlikely, it would be a first in my 25 years of work.

But instead of guessing and speculating without any useful information, kaiser454 should write to the WASt. Then we have the facts.

GregSingh
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by GregSingh » 21 Apr 2015 23:20

Thanks Reichskriegsgericht for your valuable input.
But instead of guessing and speculating without any useful information, kaiser454 should write to the WASt. Then we have the facts.
Fully agree, although this topic originally was about recruitment to the Wehrmacht, not kaiser454 family case.
(not Blaskowitz, who couldn't decide in that matter) you mention.
I just obtained scans of original document I was talking about. They are actually two, first is "Erlaß", second "Durchführungsbestimmungen", both dated 19.April 1940, first one was signed by Frank and Blaskowitz, second one only by Blaskowitz. Legal basis for the "Erlass" was Wehrgesetz from 21.May 1935, not OKW decree from the same date.
So to me, Frank and Blaskowitz issued one, knowing of OKW decree (April date couldn't be just a coincidence), but did not mention it.
The more you let yourself to go, the less others will let you to go.
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GregSingh
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by GregSingh » 22 Apr 2015 01:38

Found a scan of Wehrgesetz from 21.May 1935.

Funny, Frank and Blaskowitz seemed to be in hurry. Their "Erlaß" pointed to §18 Abschnitt 4, which did not exist. It's in Abschnitt II.

Wehrgesetz refers to "Reichsangehörige", but 19.Apr.40 Erlaß to "deutsche Volkszugehörige".
First one mentions age limit 18, second 17. They widen the base, surely.
The more you let yourself to go, the less others will let you to go.
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CNE503
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by CNE503 » 10 May 2015 12:37

Sid Guttridge wrote: The later Year Groups were first called up on the following dates:

1916 - 1/10/37
1917 - 1/10/38
1918 - 26/8/39
1919 - 26/8/39
1920 - 1/10/40
1921 - 1/2/41
1922 - 5/9/41
1923 - 15/4/42
1924 - 15/10/42
1925 - ?/5/43
1926 - ?/12/43
1927 - ?/7/44
1928 - End 1944
1929 - End March 1945.

Thus the Class of 1916 seems to have been 21 when called up, but the class of 1929 was called up at the age of 16.
Sid (or anyone able to answer the following question),

Do you know how many draftees were concerned in each year group, even roughly?

Thanks by advance,
Cheers,

CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"

RandJS
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by RandJS » 10 May 2015 12:51

And to tag onto CNE503's last question, is there information available about the numbers of draftees coming thru each Werhkreise per class?

Thanks,
Rand

Sid Guttridge
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by Sid Guttridge » 12 May 2015 11:16

Hi CNE503,

From memory, it was around 500,000 per year. However this varied considerably because fewer babies were born during WWI while many men were away.

Cheers,

Sid

Sid Guttridge
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by Sid Guttridge » 12 May 2015 11:20

Hi RandJS,

The populations of the various Wehrkreis varied greatly, as they were based on older state boundaries.

I have seen a list of the population of each Wehrkreis somewhere, but I do not recall where. If you can find this and assume there were about 500,000 men in each year class, you should be able to calculate roughly how many came from each every year.

Sorry not to be of more help.

Sid.

P.S. Try: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=H9_ ... on&f=false

RandJS
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by RandJS » 13 May 2015 01:57

Hi Sid,

Another research project on my list. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

Best Regards,
Rand

CNE503
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Re: The dates the Classes of 1916 to 1929 were called up.

Post by CNE503 » 13 Jul 2015 12:58

A link which helps to see clear about the number of draftees for each year group: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Sol ... dienst.htm

But it adds a question: I believe that the year group 1914 was enlisted in October 1935, then the year group 1915 in October 1936. This is not what it is writen in this excellent website (August 1939, i.e. during the mobilization process for the first one, in November 1936, after the year group 1916, for the second one). What does it mean? That there weren't draftees in 1935? It is not credible, because we all know that Hitler claimed the Wehrhöheit on March 16th, 1935, and then added a Wehrgesetz which defined the military service on May 21st, 1935.

Thanks for any clarification,
Cheers,

CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"

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