18. Artillerie-Division

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18. Artillerie-Division

#1

Post by stg 44 » 25 Sep 2015, 18:13

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18th_Arti ... hrmacht%29
Looking at the history of this division, sparse as it is, it was wildly misused in the mobile fighting in Ukraine in late 1943-1944 before it lost its equipment in Hube's Pocket. How do you think it would have performed had it been used in more static environments like around Leningrad or in AG-Center? It had a fire direction compute that apparently allowed for a 4 minute response time, which was less than half that of the best average time of German divisional artillery according to David Zabecki writing about German artillery doctrine.
Thoughts?

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... rev=search
88th Regiment pantserartilleriysky - three divisions of light howitzers (a total of 36 LeFH 18) and self-propelled artillery battalion conventional structure for armored divisions (12 "Vespa" and 6 "Hummel");
288th Motorized Artillery Regiment - two battalions of 150 mm howitzer (24 sFH 18), a division of 105-mm guns, 10,5 cm schwere Kanone 18 (12 guns) and Division 210-mm mortars 21 Mrs.18 cm (9 guns) ;
388 th motorized artillery regiment - one artillery battalion with nine 170-mm guns 17 K.Mrs.Laf cm; In addition, it consisted of the division of AIR and the anti-aircraft battalion (four batteries, a total of eight 88-mm, nine 37-mm and 18 20 mm anti-aircraft guns, as well as two self-propelled quad 20 mm installation on half-track tractors Sd. Kfz. 7/1;
Transport Battalion, Battalion, as well as medical and repair parts.

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Re: 18th artillery division

#2

Post by Cult Icon » 25 Sep 2015, 19:48

Barratt's Zhitomir-Berdichev books (Dec 43-Jan 44) cover the usage of this special division. It appeared to be strong formation, beating off the numerous attacks against it (including with armor) and supported german defense. In the offense, it supported the counterstrikes Winterreise and Waltraut.

Whether of not it was justified by its cost is not displayed in the book. In "Order in Chaos" (Balck) the Korps commander says that it was an inefficient use of valuable resources.


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Re: 18th artillery division

#3

Post by stg 44 » 25 Sep 2015, 20:02

How does Balck suggest those resources have been used and what would the 18th have been able to do at places like Narwa?

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Re: 18th artillery division

#4

Post by Cult Icon » 25 Sep 2015, 20:43

Balck says that the resources were valuable corps artillery and such- it should have just been parceled out conventionally rather hoarded in one giant, rather unmanueverable Fendi formation which had the side effect of seriously clogging the roads.

He does not offer an opinion of the 18.Art at Narva. In the Ukraine, it was in fact usually static in late Dec-Jan and supporting the efforts of 24.Panzer Korps (and before that, 42. AK) in holding the important center around Berdichev against the soviet Zhitomir-Berdichev offensive.

Note that he has a preference for small, maneuverable formations- he thinks that Pz Divisions' optimal size was 10,000 men, 80 tanks. The SS Pz D and the GD were serious waste of manpower and material to him.

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Re: 18th artillery division

#5

Post by stg 44 » 25 Sep 2015, 21:02

I wanted to know your opinion about whether it would have been of more use at Narwa given that that front was more static.
I think he's probably right about the SS Pz D and GD.
What was the normal panzer division size in 1943-44?

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Re: 18th artillery division

#6

Post by Cult Icon » 25 Sep 2015, 21:32

I don't think it should have been in Narva. The main effort of the Soviet strategy was the Ukraine, and AGS/AGA were fighting for survival.

Most of them were heavily under-strength by the fall of 1943. The new ones that were shipped over were naturally strong until worn down by actions. I can't give an view unless you provide more specific time periods.

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Re: 18th artillery division

#7

Post by stg 44 » 25 Sep 2015, 21:36

Cult Icon wrote:I don't think it should have been in Narva. The main effort of the Soviet strategy was the Ukraine, and AGS/AGA were fighting for survival.

Most of them were heavily under-strength by the fall of 1943. The new ones that were shipped over were naturally strong until worn down by actions. I can't give an view unless you provide more specific time periods.
What was the difference between the official OOB and what Balck was proposing? What difference would it have functionally made in 1943 if instituted before Kursk?

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Re: 18th artillery division

#8

Post by Cult Icon » 25 Sep 2015, 21:50

I have a copy of Balck's US Army conference. I can't bring it up now but basically his argument is centered on span of control issues. He doesn't believe that the average armored division commander has the talent to command formations larger than 10K unless they are, in his words, a "Guderian". He also likes officers below division level leading smaller, fitter units rather than ones bloated with manpower and equipment. He emphasizes higher "maneuverability". The marginal gains of large units are decreasing in his view with the excess idling around or providing more targets for the enemy to destroy via overconcentration.

Differences? Just my opinion but a lot of small panzer divisions for OP citadel. I don't know if he is correct or not.

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Re: 18th artillery division

#9

Post by stg 44 » 25 Sep 2015, 22:13

Right, but how much smaller than the contemporary divisions (May 1943)? Would it have helped post Kursk in Ukraine?

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Re: 18th artillery division

#10

Post by Cult Icon » 25 Sep 2015, 22:31

I am just writing from memory but 10,000 men with 80 tanks and something like 2,000 in the PzG regiments (4 x 500). I really need to dig that material up to get the exact opinion. I don't know- it's a very subjective question. The Pz Divisions were mostly beaten down to a small size anyway in the Ukraine but with a disproportionately large artillery regiment pared with a small tank and infantry element. eg. west of kiev Dec 1943, the infantry had triple artillery due to prior losses.

Where did you get that info about a fire direction computer? that is quite interesting.

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Re: 18th artillery division

#11

Post by stg 44 » 25 Sep 2015, 22:41

Cult Icon wrote:I am just writing from memory but 10,000 men with 80 tanks and something like 2,000 in the PzG regiments (4 x 500). I really need to dig that material up to get the exact opinion. I don't know- it's a very subjective question. The Pz Divisions were mostly beaten down to a small size anyway in the Ukraine but with a disproportionately large artillery regiment pared with a small tank and infantry element. eg. west of kiev Dec 1943, the infantry had triple artillery due to prior losses.

Where did you get that info about a fire direction computer? that is quite interesting.
It was mentioned in a book called "Steel Wind" by Zabecki. He mentions it in passing, its called das Koppelungsgerät which was supposed to allow the entire division to concentrate on the same target in 4 minutes.

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Re: 18th artillery division

#12

Post by Ironmachine » 26 Sep 2015, 09:24

Cult Icon wrote:Where did you get that info about a fire direction computer? that is quite interesting.
More info about the fire direction computer and how the division was supposed to operate can be found in On Artillery by Bruce I. Gudmundsson:
Fresh memories of the 78th Assault Division's attempt to do without the massed fire of artillery units larger than battalions may have played a role in the German Army's next major experiment in division organization, the 18th Artillery Division. In contrast to the 78th Assault Division, which had been extraordinarily rich in direct fire weapons, the 18th Artillery Division was conceived of as a formation that acted exclusively through concentrated indirect fire. Its principal combat units were nine fully motorized artillery battalions, one of which had its howitzers mounted on armored, self-propelled, fully-tracked chassis.
The original concept was for the 18th Artillery Division to serve as a "focus of efforts weapon" (Schwerpunktwaffe) with which the Army High Command could powerfully reinforce an army corps or similar organization in a particularly critical situation. So that it could move rapidly from one sector to another, the division was to be entirely motorized.[...] So that the 18th Artillery Division could rapidly mass the fire of all available batteries on single targets, it was provided with an experimental fire control battery (Feuerleitbatterie).
The fire control battery might best be described as an overgrown version of the French poste central du groupe. With communication links to as many as eighteen firing units (whether single batteries, battalions, or detachments of varying size) and an almost unlimited number of observers, its job was to translate the tactical decisions of observers into a coordinated set of firing commands. Like its French antecedent, the fire control battery had the advantage of greatly simplifying the work of battery commanders trying to cooperate with other batteries to produce the simultaneous impact of scores of shells. The great danger was that the battery commander would be deprived of his role as a tactical decision maker.
This latter danger was greatly mitigated by the fact that the fire control battery was a supplement to, rather than a replacement for, traditional German fire control procedures. The batteries of the 18th Artillery Division, as well as any batteries under its operational control, retained their battery observation posts and forward observers, as well as procedures that made the battery commander, with his eyes on the battlefield, a tactical decision maker. These other observers were used for missions that were not of direct interest to the division as a whole: battery, battalion, and regimental concetrations; barrages (rarely), as well as registration and harassing fire by means of roving pieces (Arbeitsgeschütze). Only when traditional methods would not do the job -particularly when the fire of a large number of batteries needed to be concentrated quickly- did the fire control battery come into action.
The innovation of the German fire control battery was not merely one of scale. The heart of the battery (or, more precisely, its mind), was an electronic computed linked to a series of teletype machines. The computer, which was "aware" of the location of every German firing unit, quickly converted the call for fire from the observer into a series of fire commands (azimuth, range, type of projectile and fuse, number of rounds, etc.) that, three to five second laters, were automatically transmitted by teletype.
In addition to making use of the forward observers and observation posts of the artillery batteries, battalions, and regiments, the fire control battery was in contact with a number of special observers riding in armored command vehicles (Panzerbafehlswagen). Escorted by assault guns (from the 18th Artillery Division's assault gun company) and often provided with man-pack radios so that they could use observation points too small to hide an armored vehicle, these observers belonged to neither battery nor battalion but to the division as a whole. They were, in contrast to the second lieutenants and NCOs who served as battery forward observers, experienced battery (an, in some cases, battalion) commanders. Most important, they had the authority to bring down the concentrated firepower of an artillery regiment or even the whole artillery division on whatever point they designated.
In a sense, these armored observers were the descendants of the artillery liaison officers of 1918. Like their predecessors, the armored observers were not tied to any particular firing unit but had the means to gather the services of available artillery units. The armored observers represented a step up from the artillery liaison officers of World War I in that their use of radio and their links to the fire control battery allowed them contact with a larger number of potential firing batteries. Another advantage enjoyed by the armored observer was the practice of sending armored observers out in teams of two or three. This not only allowed continuous observation while on the move (one observer in an overwatch position while the others changed position) but also permitted the observation of a tactical event from two or three different vantage points.
For counterbattery work, the 18th Artillery Division had an observation battalion. Identical to the observation battalions that were usually attached to army corps and directly subordinated to Arkos, this observation battalion had three tasks. The first was to establish its intelligence network of listening and observation posts and balloons. The second, particularly important if the fire control battery was to be of any use, was to carry out a thorough survey so that the entire divisioncould be on the same grid. Last (but certainly not least) was to command the counterbattery effort. That is, rather than telling off a particular battlion or regiment for counterbattery work, the division put units under the operational control of the observation battalion.
In situations where the 18th Artillery Division was operating with a formation that had access to an to Arko or observation battalion of its own, one of these might be assigned the responsibility for the counterbattery effort. This freed the 18th Artillery Division to do what it was designed to do: rapidly concentrate its fire on single points where that fire would have a decisive impact on the outcome of a battle. The 18th Artillery Division, after all, was no better equipped for identifying and combating Soviet batteries than an to Arko commanding a similar number of firing batteries. The combination of the fire contrl battery and the armored observation vehicles, however, gave it a unique means of cooperating with hard-pressed infantry.

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Re: 18th artillery division

#13

Post by Sheldrake » 26 Sep 2015, 10:04

This unique German formation was given the capabilities which existed in the Royal Artillery across the Mediterranean and European theatres of war.

From early 1943 each British Corps was supported by at least one AGRA- Army Group Royal Artillery which co-ordinated the fire of Army level field medium and heavy artillery, supported by OPs in armoured vehicles.

Within the Royal Artillery it was the norm for the artillery fire of the divisional artillery group to be controlled by experienced observers, captains and majors to whom authority could be delegated to order fire from all the guns of a regiment a division corps or all in range and available.

I am not quite sure what this comuter was. If it genuinely could calculate firing data for dozens of batteries taking account of the different variables affecting the trajectory, then it would have a reasonable claim to be the worlds first electronic computer. Has anyone more information on this fire control system?

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Re: 18th artillery division

#14

Post by Ironmachine » 26 Sep 2015, 10:05

stg 44 wrote:How do you think it would have performed had it been used in more static environments like around Leningrad or in AG-Center?
The conditions in which the 18th Artillery Division had to operate in the field were almost completely contrary to those expected when it was created. The same source I cited in my previous post states how while still "half-trained, undermanned, and incompletely equipped" it had to be sent to the front due to a Soviet offensive where "found itself trying to plug a gaping hole in the German disposition". With no infantry available "the observation battalion, antiaircraft battalion, and practically every unit other than firing bateries were used as close-combat troops".
This final remark is very revealing: "Thus, as early as February 1944, the 18th Artillery Division was forced to spread its regiments along a front so long that division concentrations were no longer posible." That is, by February 1944, not by its own failure but due to the conditions on the battlefield, the division was no longer able to fulfill the mission for which it has been created!
Considering all these circunstances, it is reasonable to assume that it would have performed better in different, more suitable environment.

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Re: 18th artillery division

#15

Post by Ironmachine » 26 Sep 2015, 10:27

Sheldrake wrote:I am not quite sure what this comuter was. If it genuinely could calculate firing data for dozens of batteries taking account of the different variables affecting the trajectory, then it would have a reasonable claim to be the worlds first electronic computer. Has anyone more information on this fire control system?
There is a small thread in Feldgrau, inactive since 2003, about this matter, but little additional information is to be found there: http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7626
For what's worth, the Reconaissance Artillery document by Wilhelm Berlin, Hans Joachim Froben and Konrad Roehr mentioned in the last post is available here:https://server16040.contentdm.oclc.org/ ... OX=1&REC=3, but I can't find no reference to the computer in question, or even to the 18th Artillery Division.
Last edited by Ironmachine on 26 Sep 2015, 10:45, edited 1 time in total.

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