3 men German team

[Panzergrenadier2967]

somebody can say what germans did with 3 men? for example MG team, anti tank etc. and what weapons they carried? did an officer and twon men form a patrol? all helps are appreciated

[Panzergrenadier2967]

an MG team was composed with an obergrefeiter or gefreiter and two soldiers (K98 and MG42)?

[Gary Kennedy]

It does depend on the type of LMG team and the time period. In the pre-war Infantry Regiment the Rifle Squad was 13 strong and the LMG team had four men (with 3 pistols and 1 rifle). In the revised 10-man Squad the LMG team dropped to three men (gunner and assistant each with pistol and a third man with rifle). When the Squad was trimmed back to 9 men my understanding is that it was the third member of the LMG team who was cut, leaving a gunner (pistol) and assistant (rifle). Panzer Grenadier Squads when issued with two LMGs tended to be just a gunner and assistant per LMG team within the Squad.

I can't say offhand that I know the German Army used a three man detachment for a large number of different roles. The composition of a patrol I think would depend a great deal on what the patrol was undertaking and what personnel were available to form it for example. When there were set teams for infantry anti-tank weapons (anti-tank rifles or the later Panzerschreck) from memory they were normally just a gunner and assistant, with an NCO overseeing a number of teams rather than just one.

Gary

[Panzergrenadier2967]

thanks. but in 1943-44 does any MG team had 3 men? with one MG?

[yantaylor]

Sorry to add to your woes Pzg, here is a KStN for a 1944 rifle company;

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131n1mai44.htm

Regards
Yan.

[Panzergrenadier2967]

Sorry to add to your woes Pzg, here is a KStN for a 1944 rifle company;

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131n1mai44.htm

Regards
Yan.

come on! it's only a question! not a threat.

[Panzergrenadier2967]

in WW1 and WW2 films we see often three soldiers in a MG team (rarely two) so i asked.

[Panzergrenadier2967]

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/wor ... 0302181914

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uhOrY88MGbM/maxresdefault.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/b9/95 ... e8005b.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/06/42/7d/0642 ... devils.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-x_dgejtnJ5U/U ... r-1942.jpg

[Panzergrenadier2967]

In the film "To Hell and Back", for example, Audie Murphy in Volturno battle atttacked several MGs and they show in that film usually that there are two men and in one three soldiers in the foxholes (MG nests).

[yantaylor]

Pzg, I would say that the basic MG/34 or MG/42, when used in the LMG mode would be crewed by two men.
I am not sure about this, but didn't the German's use their LMGs in a different way to every other country?
Didn't the infantry squad have to provide protection to the LMG team?

Yan.

[Gary Kennedy]

Yan reminded me that, in the German handling of the Rifle Squad, the NCO would principally stay with the MG team, though I recall he was expected to lead the close assault. I think there's a general rule of thumb that a 'light support weapon' (as in a bipod LMG, 50mm-ish mortar, etc) works well with a gunner, a loader and a third man to observe and direct/correct fire, which role would normally be undertaken by an NCO of some stripe. So if you have the gunner and loader for an LMG operating under the direction of the Squad leader, that might be considered the 3-man team of the original post. There would be a lot of real life factors to get in the way of such things, and there are numerous examples of crew served weapons being handled by individuals in certain, usually somewhat extreme, circumstances (and on occasion in direct contravention of the manufacturer's instructions).

Gary

[Panzergrenadier2967]

Yan reminded me that, in the German handling of the Rifle Squad, the NCO would principally stay with the MG team, though I recall he was expected to lead the close assault. I think there's a general rule of thumb that a 'light support weapon' (as in a bipod LMG, 50mm-ish mortar, etc) works well with a gunner, a loader and a third man to observe and direct/correct fire, which role would normally be undertaken by an NCO of some stripe. So if you have the gunner and loader for an LMG operating under the direction of the Squad leader, that might be considered the 3-man team of the original post. There would be a lot of real life factors to get in the way of such things, and there are numerous examples of crew served weapons being handled by individuals in certain, usually somewhat extreme, circumstances (and on occasion in direct contravention of the manufacturer's instructions).

Gary

thanks for your help. perhaps i think that there was not always a NCO but also a grefeiter or obergefreiter. so they have K98 and pistols (and MG with rounds). so about 45 k98 rounds, 16 of P38 and about 250 of MG42

[Panzergrenadier2967]

How many MG rounds they carried in battle? 500? 1000? I've read that sometimes 3000 rounds were brought in battle

[yantaylor]

Pzg, I don't know if it tells you about the quantity of ammo brought into battle, but you may find something in here that will help you in your quests;

http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/w ... mber09.pdf

[Gary Kennedy]

Ammunition availability is something I was looking at a while back, and didn't really get back to.

Basic load I've seen referenced for the 10-man Squad was five 50-round drums and three ammunition boxes (300 rounds each) for a total of 1150 rounds. The ammunition allocation for an LMG in a Rifle Squad looks to have been 2450, plus 500 rounds each in reserve in Regt and Div columns. Below is a link to a thread I started with some good replies;

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic ... y#p2082505

Gary