SS divisional "shield insignia"

[Ivan Ž.]

A shield, unbroken.

Don't miss this interesting topic that deals with another "Frundsberg" insignia - a letter F within a rhomboid:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/571595/t ... .SS+Pz+Div

[/size]
Cheers,
Ivan

[Sauerkraut]

Hello again, Sauerkraut, and thanks for the additions.

Is there a full version of this image? The insignia looks really unusual for the "Totenkopf" Division.

20180105_130142.jpg
Cheers,
Ivan

Hello!
The picture is in the book "Dictionnaire de la Waffen-SS volume 1" by Charles Trang, Heimdal, page 282 (in the chapter about Totenkopf division). The text to it (in french) states: "A column from an infantry regiment during a break. We can notice the two death's heads painted on the side-car" (and motorcycle).
It is from "Tim Willemsen's collection".

[Ivan Ž.]

Yep, no doubt, it's the T-Division. An interesting version of its insignia (It was probably just a one-off drawing, for this particular vehicle.)

Thanks for the full image.

Cheers,
Ivan

[Sauerkraut]

Hitlerjugend division, with shield and oakleaves! Source: "Panzerdivision Hitlerjugend : SS-Panzer-Regiment 12 Normandie 1944", Stephan Cazenave, Maranes

[Ivan Ž.]

Hitlerjugend division, with shield and oakleaves!

The insignia was basically a copy of its sister-division's (Leibstandarte's) insignia, only with a Hitlerjugend Sigrune added to the LSSAH key.

Cheers,
Ivan

[Sauerkraut]

20180105_131951.jpg (62.71 KiB) Viewed 1402 times

In Charles Trang's book "Opération Barbarossa, la Waffen-SS au combat", the insignia that, on board in the initial post of this topic, is said to be "XVIII vol. Pz.Gren.Division "Horst Wessel"", is mentioned in the chapter about Feldkommandostelle "Reichsführer-SS", as being the insignia of both the SS-Kavallerie Brigade and the 1. SS-Infanterie- Brigade (mot.). Later the Kavallerie-Brigade added a horse head to distinguish itself.

[Ivan Ž.]

The SS Cavalry Brigade used two types of insignia and one of them was indeed a sword.
No info on the SS Cavalry Division's insignia at the moment.

Two types of SS Cavalry Brigade insignia:

KavBrig1.jpg (70.43 KiB) Viewed 1391 times

KavBrig2.jpg (69.67 KiB) Viewed 1391 times

[/size](Source: Bundesarchiv)

Ivan

[Ivan Ž.]

A rarely seen LSSAH insignia with an oak leaf wreath:

1SS.jpg (102.43 KiB) Viewed 1374 times

[/size](Source: "SS-Leibstandarte", Rupert Butler)

[Sauerkraut]

The SS Cavalry Brigade used two types of insignia and one of them was indeed a sword. No info on the SS Cavalry Division's insignia at the moment.

In the book I quoted (Charles Trang 'Opération Barbarossa, la Waffen-SS au combat) , it is written as comment to a photo "The vehicles and carts of the units placed under command of the Kommandostab "RFSS" are identified by a turnip, not much of a martial insignia."
And on the photo of the sword insignia I put in the previous post, the dark zone behind the sword is said to be paint masking the "turnip"!

[Ivan Ž.]

Ha! It did look like a turnip to me too! But I think it must have been something else or with a deeper symbolism anyway, a heraldic symbol or something like that. Why would they choose a turnip...

Cheers,
Ivan

[Ivan Ž.]

Another LSSAH insignia, that hasn't been posted so far: a key in an unbroken shield.

1SS2.jpg (102.71 KiB) Viewed 1363 times

[/size](Source: "The 1st SS Panzer Division 'Leibstandarte'", Herbert Walther)

[Sauerkraut]

Ha! It did look like a turnip to me too! But I think it must have been something else or with a deeper symbolism anyway, a heraldic symbol or something like that. Why would they choose a turnip...

Cheers,
Ivan

I don't know, I think it's a vegetable anyway, and can't think of any martial vegetable ! It is a very interesting question, what the symbolism or story behind this is? Himmler was into medicinal herbs, ecology... My guess is the answer has something to do with this! Or pagan symbolism...

[Ivan Ž.]

The real insignia of the 11th SS Division: a Sonnenrad in a circle (without a shield).

11SS.jpg (130.22 KiB) Viewed 1303 times

[/size](Source: network54.com)

[Ivan Ž.]

The real insignia of the 20th SS Division: a mailed arm holding a sword and guarding a rounded letter E (Estonia). No shield.

20SS.jpg (64.12 KiB) Viewed 1301 times

[/size](Source: Die Deutsche Wochenschau Nr. 707)

[FransN]

Have a look at this YouTube film titled "Czechoslovakia May 1945 German and American vehicles in colour" (or try "Die letzten Bilder der Wehrmacht in Farbe (Mai 1945)". Same film footage)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEzgCSuUDd4

It shows mainly German troops surrendering in the Pilsen area in May 1945. The film lasts about 6'55" and is in colour!.
At about 2'11" and 3'24" you'll see good examples of the divisional signs of the 2. SS Pz.Div. "Das Reich", e.g. one of its towed artillery detachments (Art. Abt. (mot.Z)). The divisional sign is in yellow and without any frame.

Also have a close look at the following time points in this film:
1'54" A Sd. Kfz. 251 passes by with on its right-hand wing/fender a tilted capital letter E or "epsilon" over a tilted white stripe or maybe sword. The halftrack seems to have an SS license plate. Think of the first (and unpopular) German-designed collar patch for the 20. W. Gren. Div. d. SS (estn. Nr. 1): a tilted sword superimposed over a letter "epsilon".... . Is this a crude divisional sign for this division or do I have a rich imagination? Most of this division had to surrender to the Russians near Prague, but some appeared to have succeeded to escape towards Pilsen and the Americans (God knows what happened to them afterwards. Sent back to the Russians....?). However, the Sd. Kfz. 251 seems not to fit with this infantry-type division.

Then have a look a the Opel Blitz at 2'29" with on its right-hand wing/fender a capital letter L with a vertical stripe to the right of it. Again, this vehicle appears to have an SS license plate. Think of the alleged divisional symbol for the 15. W.Gren.Div. d. SS (lett. Nr. 1)... However, this division wasn't in the Protectorate Böhmen-Mähren (now Czech republic) at the time.

Any comments are welcome.
Frans