Good morning to everybody,
I found in a Russian - German Project doc (12466 A 51, link: wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/nodes/5541-akte-51-unterlagen-der-ia-abteilung-des-pzaok-3-kriegsst-rkenachweisungen-zu-einheiten-der-panzerarmee-merkbl-tter-zum-kriegsetat-44-f-r-verschiedene-truppenteile-schriftwechsel-mit-dem-okh-u-a#page/219/mode/inspect/zoom/4) some documents about KStN of an artillery regiment tmot (number 401 c, 403 c, 433 c, 575 c, 582 c, all with date 7/7/1943), organizational charts showing only horse, wagons, guns, trucks, cars, motorcycles and bicycles, no information on men and light weapons.
I found these KStN in dr. Niehorsters site’s list, but I don’t know anything about their use, the document I found is about the de-motorization of Inf Div 14, but I don’t know if they were introduced for a specific Welle of Infantry Division or if they were standard organization for infantry divisions in 1943? But the infantry division n.a. organization was issued in October 1943, or were they used for GHQ units?
I hope that somebody can give me some information about these units and, if possible, the data missing in these charts (men and light weapons).
Thank you
Max
Artillery Regiment tmot (KStN with date 7/7/1943)
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Re: Artillery Regiment tmot (KStN with date 7/7/1943)
I would have to say those documents just refer to 14 Inf Div, as outlined in the memo you've indicated above, on page 219. 14 Inf Div looks to have been formed out of 14 Mot Inf Div, which didn't make the transition to a Panzer Grenadier Div and became an Infantry formation instead.
https://www.axishistory.com/list-all-ca ... r-division
There are a couple of Gliederung charts for it on Sturmpanzer.com, and under the Arty Regt it appears to state "Beweglichkeit der Geschutze durch Zugstaffel", to which is later added "Zusatzl. 2 Mun-Stafell. Gepacktrosse besp."
I think that tallies with the vehicle related schemes you've found, which in the firing Btys shows the guns as towed, No.1 Mun Staffel motorised, No.2 horse-drawn, and all the Trains elements likewise horse-drawn transport. I don't think they refer to a wider reorganisation of Inf Div Arty Regts, just this oddity, which has moved from fully to partly motorised. The full KStN tables do not look to be on the list of holdings at BA-MA I'm afraid.
Thanks for pointing this file out by the way, there are some summary tables included in that are of interest to me, and I don't recall seeing them before.
Hope that helps some,
Gary
https://www.axishistory.com/list-all-ca ... r-division
There are a couple of Gliederung charts for it on Sturmpanzer.com, and under the Arty Regt it appears to state "Beweglichkeit der Geschutze durch Zugstaffel", to which is later added "Zusatzl. 2 Mun-Stafell. Gepacktrosse besp."
I think that tallies with the vehicle related schemes you've found, which in the firing Btys shows the guns as towed, No.1 Mun Staffel motorised, No.2 horse-drawn, and all the Trains elements likewise horse-drawn transport. I don't think they refer to a wider reorganisation of Inf Div Arty Regts, just this oddity, which has moved from fully to partly motorised. The full KStN tables do not look to be on the list of holdings at BA-MA I'm afraid.
Thanks for pointing this file out by the way, there are some summary tables included in that are of interest to me, and I don't recall seeing them before.
Hope that helps some,
Gary
Re: Artillery Regiment tmot (KStN with date 7/7/1943)
Hello!
I think the KSTN were used in a few special cases. 401c and 575c were also used by SS-Art.Rgt. 8 in late 1943, the latter also by 78. Stu.Div. in Mid-1943.
I think the KSTN were used in a few special cases. 401c and 575c were also used by SS-Art.Rgt. 8 in late 1943, the latter also by 78. Stu.Div. in Mid-1943.
Ciao
Re: Artillery Regiment tmot (KStN with date 7/7/1943)
Thank you, Gary and Dirk
then these KStN were used in SS Kav Division Florian Geyer in the summer of 43 and the KStN are with date 7/7/43.
I am happy that Gary found useful information in that folder, in 12466 A 84 you find similar information for every KStN of the standard Infantry Division 44.
Regards
Max
then these KStN were used in SS Kav Division Florian Geyer in the summer of 43 and the KStN are with date 7/7/43.
I am happy that Gary found useful information in that folder, in 12466 A 84 you find similar information for every KStN of the standard Infantry Division 44.
Regards
Max