KStNs 859 1/5/42 & 859 (gek) 1/3/42

[KStN201]

The numbers for 859 are: 4/39/115

The number for 859 (gek) are: 5/50/122

However, it appears that the gek (reduced) KStN has more men than the unreduced KStN! Does anyone know why this might be the case or are the numbers for 859 simply wrong?

Dave

[Gary Kennedy]

Just a guess, but Leo's Tessin list shows 859 issued on 01 Oct 38, then 01 Mar 42 and again 01 May 42. The 'gek' version is also dated 01 Mar 42. Possibly this was a reduced strength version of the Mar 42 issue of the 'standard' table, which was superseded two months on?

Gary

[Max104740]

Hi to everybody,
I found in 12530 A 82 http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/ru/n ... ect/zoom/4 a new version of a KStN 859 radio company that I think is a mar 42 version, its manpower is 5/52/132.
In fact it is a 4 platoons organization instead of the three platoons that Dave found, I guess, in 12498 A 47 at page 307, but the platoons are all different, with for instance 4 radio pack troops d in platoons 2 and 4 of the version I found in 12530 and no of them is present in 12498’s one. The 12530 organization on the contrary is the same of the march 42 859 gek with two radio pack troops d added in platoon d.
This seems to confirm Gary hypothesis.
In the same 12530 document is a 831 company with five platoons still present, while in 12498 we find a 831 mar 42 “sollstarke b” with four platoons and the same manpower of 831 gek, 5/33/173, and a note that states that a “sollstarke a” version, with a fifth platoons, arrives at 6/38/207, as in 12530.
I think that in March 42 the gek version of the transmission company of an Infantry Division was obtained by subtraction, of a complete platoon for the telephone company and of some pack troops for the radio one, while in May 42 a new concept radio company was formed, with a total manpower inferior to both the March versions, perhaps no new telephone company was needed or it was formed but we lost it.
I would like to hear your opinion on my guesses.
Regards
Max

[KStN201]

Gary and Max,

Thanks for this.

What you are both saying looks like it is correct.

However, there is one query I have.

If you add up the Funk trupp numbers and all the other parts of the Funk Company you get to 5/51/127 rather than the 5/52/132 quoted in 12530 A 82 page 7.

The difference could be because the 5/52/132 is wrong or the number of Funk trupps shown on pages 6-7 is wrong.

However, if you add back another 2 Torn Funk trupps b you get to 5/52/132 with the number of vehicles also being correct. Coincidentally, the number and type of trupps is now the same as the 1938 version of 859.

It looks like there is a mistake on pages 6 or 7, but which mistake is it?

Any thoughts?

Dave

[KStN201]

Gents,
I found the attached document in NARA roll T312 R366 (AOK 11) image 541.

It shows the reductions in strength in 831, 859 & 871 on 3/3/42.

831 reduction in 4 Zug matches 831 (gek) from 1/3/42.

871 reduction in trucks to be replaced by wagons matches the 871a from 1/3/42.

859 reduction in 2 each of Torn Funk Trupps b and d matches the strengths of 859 1/10/38 and the reduction for 859 (gek). Therefore, I think we can conclude that the numbers of 5/52/132 for 859 on 1/3/42 are correct and the diagram on pages 6-7 are incorrect (some of the other details in this document is incorrect compared to the KStNs).

Hopefully things are now clearer!

Obviously further thoughts welcomed!

Dave

[Max104740]

Hi to everybody,
I think that Dave reconstruction is correct, the two radio pack d were from platoon 2 and the b ones from platoon 3.
In this document, from germandocsinrussia 12498 A 47, one can see the passage from of KStN 859 radio company from the March 42 (standard, not gek) version to the May 42 version, and again the passage of march 42 KStN 831 telephone company from the standard to the gek version.
Regards
Max

A 47 KStN di Batt Trasm inf div 43 due.pdf

(528.79 KiB) Downloaded 63 times

[WChurchill]

Hi all,

Not specific to the 1942 version you are looking at but came across this 1940 version from the same source which has a nice break down of the sections and equipment in some of the earlier pages.

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/8

[Max104740]

Thank you,
of particular interest the data on the radio troops of 1940.
In this thread
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=240765
you find other information on trasmission units, but not for 42-43 period you are interested
I hope this was useful for you
Max