Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

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headwest
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Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by headwest » 24 Jan 2020 17:31

Ah sorry everyone

I thought it was here on this forum someone had drawn a modern day map of the battle, Wittmann's exact starting point, his CP (farmhouse) etc

I am more curious right now to find

1) what road his tanks were on, the old road???? (on another forum lost to me someone posted the road today, small single lane but paved, some old rod or something its called today)
2) where they were parked and his CP (here or some other forum a member posted a picture outside a small white gate to the house that was his CP)
3) the exact route from this road, thru the field or road to the main road where the action commenced

the battle itself is very well documented but i have seen a couple different possible areas where he actually was

also

4) when did they arrive at this location before the battle, and where had they come from?

Thanks so much

in the picture from google earth i pinpointed different possible locations, none have the CP. you can see someone said up toward the top right, others said bottom left. then there is A squadron etc

I would like to pinpoint the actual, real locations
Wittmann2.jpg
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headwest
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Re: Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by headwest » 29 Jan 2020 20:48

has anyone found where MW started from for sure? i guess thats the question I have

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Georg_S
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Re: Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by Georg_S » 04 Feb 2020 11:26

Hello

I found this interessting map in M. Wittmanns SS-File. Maybe there is some help to those who study SS-Hstuf. Michael Wittmann

Best regards
Georg
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eindhoven
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Re: Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by eindhoven » 05 Feb 2020 00:10

Wittmann start point via panzerace
wittmann_vb_map_phase01.png
German version of events
wittmann_rueckkehr kopie.jpg
Modern version
map_modern-1 copy.jpg
Dietrich's Ia, Hermann "Bibl" Weiser, raises a toast to Wittmann
img_250763_56766.jpg
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headwest
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Re: Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by headwest » 05 Feb 2020 18:48

Thanks Eindhoven!

you know you always amaze me with what you know and find! I think it was on wehrmacht awards that someone had pics of the lane/road they were parked on, the old farmhouse/CP wittmann used, then he had a picture of the field he drove thru and up towards 213. man i wish i could find that again, it might help here. i turn here for all the best answers! lol

not a big deal but as your probably well aware of by now I have this interest in the smaller things in these battles and locations

i will see if i can dig that up

thanks!

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Re: Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by Michael Kenny » 05 Feb 2020 19:31

Rick (http://www.panzerace.net/) is a bit behind the times. No Cromwell with Blondie but another Firefly ('pistolpackinmamma!')was hit just a short distance away.
PK Photos .firefly .. ... (4).jpg
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Last edited by Michael Kenny on 06 Feb 2020 17:15, edited 1 time in total.

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eindhoven
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Re: Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by eindhoven » 06 Feb 2020 02:02

headwest wrote:
05 Feb 2020 18:48
not a big deal but as your probably well aware of by now I have this interest in the smaller things in these battles and locations
Luckily for us the wheel is invented and improved already although as you say, there are many versions. I've translated and paraphrased from French just one version below with locations that are well vetted which helps isolate some of the smaller things you are after

We find SS-Obersturmführer Wittmann at the Château d'Orbois after II00 hours on June 13, where he receives orders to report to I. SS Panzer-Korps and the command post of the s.SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101 located in Château Baron-sur-Odon as quickly as possible to report to its leadership the events of the morning. The Tiger battalion commander, SS-Sturmbannführer Heinz von Westernhagen, continues at the same time ordering the digging in and deployment of his entire unit on the front line. No doubt aware of the attack plan of Kampfgruppe Ritgen set for noon, Westernhagen orders that Ostuf. Wittmann must complete the task of alerting the rest of the Tigers available from schwere.SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101 within the allotted time table. Consequently, Wittmann absolutely must find the I. Kompanie commanded by his friend, SS-Hauptsturmführer Rolf Möbius. Wittmann knows Mobius was located the day before somewhere north-east of his command post at the castle of Epars. He will leave by Schwimmwagen to the headquarters of the Château Baron sur-Odon about fifteen kilometers from the Château d'Orbois, sometime before 1 p.m. Furthermore, it is noted in Sepp Dietrich’s report concerning Wittmann's engagement on June 13, 1944 that he would have met Hstuf. Möbius and his 8 Tiger from I. Kompanie on the national road 175, located between hill 213 and Noyers-Bocage. It is very likely that Wittmann came face to face with the Panzer group camouflaged on the side of RN 175 by following as close as possible to the northern edge of the combat zone near Villy-Bocage, then by road to Monts-en-Bessin. Protected by scouts of the Panzer-Lehr-Division deployed on the main area around hill 213, Obersturmführer Wittmann was able to take the road from Caen to the position of Möbius at Bas-des-Landes / Montbrocq. The group of 8 Tiger’s of Hstuf. Möbius has been parked for 11 hours in a field by the roadside in a state of observation and waiting. The group of German heavy tanks managed to occupy this area by cutting through the fields without revealing the slightest indication of movement to the English observers located on hill 213 at just a little over 1000 meters.

Ostuf. Wittmann departs with two Schwimmwagen from the Panzer-Lehr-Division leaving the CP at the Château d'Orbois, in the company of Ostuf. Wessel and the crew of the Tiger 212 including Boldt.

Wittmann working out the details to locate I. Kompanie commanded by SS-Hauptsturmführer Rolf Möbius
Orbois.jpg
OrboisII.jpg
Note the Schwimmwagen in the foreground as mentioned in the text above
Orbois Panzer_Lehr.jpg
SS-Hauptsturmführer Rolf Möbius
SS-Hauptsturmführer Rolf Möbius Kopie.jpg
[sources: Hors-Serie Normandie 1944 Magazine 39-45 n°11 Frédéric Deprun et Yann Jouauit; Images Kameradschaft LSSAH]
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Last edited by eindhoven on 06 Feb 2020 03:31, edited 2 times in total.

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eindhoven
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Re: Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by eindhoven » 06 Feb 2020 03:25

Michael Kenny wrote:
05 Feb 2020 19:31
Rick (http://www.panzerace.net/) is a bit behind the times. No Cromwell with Blondie but another Firefly was hit just a short distance away.

PK Photos .firefly .. ... (4).jpg
"Alla Keefek" T-212728 was a Firefly with A squadron of 4th County of London Yeomanry abandoned near Hill 213 after the unsuccessful escape attempt on June 13th between 12-1300hrs. Its barrel is still turned to the rear. Near 'Alla Keefek' is a 95mm equipped Cromwell VI T-187661 along with a 75mm equipped Cromwell IV T-187632. The images taken by SS-KB Petraschk illustrate the fate of this group attempting to flee VB towards Hill 213 only to suddenly face Möbius's Tigers coming down RN 175 (Route National 175). The last image of 'Alla Keefek' in-situ was taken near Hill 213 by Kriegsberichter Zwirner (Il. Zug. Of Luftwaffe-Kriesgberichter-Abt.b.Lfl.3). The Waffen-SS have left and the abandoned Sherman Firefly "Alla Keefek" is now being inspected by men from a Luftwaffe unit (probably from Ill. Flakkorps from Luftflotte 3). (BA).

Allakeefek T212728.jpg
Allakeefek Kopie.jpg
Allakeefek insitu kopie.jpg
[Bundesarchiv KB-Petraschk; KB-Zwirner]
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Last edited by eindhoven on 06 Feb 2020 04:08, edited 1 time in total.

Michael Kenny
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Re: Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by Michael Kenny » 06 Feb 2020 03:40

From west to east 3 Firefly: pistolpackinmamma!, Blondie then Allakeefek. The 4th A Squadron Firefly was taken away for a technical examination.
Last edited by Michael Kenny on 06 Feb 2020 17:16, edited 2 times in total.

headwest
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Re: Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by headwest » 06 Feb 2020 15:03

Thank you Eindhoven!

Reading thru that, and checking Google Maps, are the pics you presented here of Wittmann making his plans then at the Château Baron-sur-Odon?

or would these be at Château d'Orbois?

headwest
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Re: Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by headwest » 06 Feb 2020 15:15

This was my original finding from other posts where the road was they were parked/fields, this was his CP and the field they started from

but then someone who seemed to REALLY knwo these areas posted photos of them at these locations BUT they didn't quite match up! arrgghh. i think this house looks to new as well. i have to find that old post and let you all see it. i knwo i am close

basically these are ground pics of the overhead pic i have marked. but this other poster who knows more than me swear he was in the right spot for all this the night before and the morning of the beginning of VB. I drew the red ling based on what i think he may have done, but it makes more sense to me the blue line to drive on the road hidden. any thoughts most appreciated
Wittmannroad.jpg
WittmannCP.jpg
Wittmann3.jpg
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Re: Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by Michael Kenny » 06 Feb 2020 15:17

The 4 A Squadron Cromwells in the orchard were north of the road (near Blondie) and west of pt 219.
400-0283 (4309) Orchard Cromwells.jpg
400-0283 (4408)Viller s.jpg
400-0283 (4410)_stitch.jpg
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headwest
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Re: Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by headwest » 06 Feb 2020 17:16

nice MK! love these photos you get from the old databases!

i think you and eindhoven know this stuff cold, what are your thoughts on the starting positions then of the Tigers and MW?

thank you!

headwest
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Re: Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by headwest » 06 Feb 2020 17:42

Boy this is exciting!

So I took Michael K's picture and checked it against my recent one

1) there is NO houses at all where I placed his CP, Circle in blue
2) however just down the road is a farmhouse, and that is still there, circle in green
3) IF, i had the road where the tanks were parked would he have gone cross country - RED -? looks like alot of trees etc
4) or one of the orange? taking the road to somewhere past 213 where he could cut up, turn left and engage?
5) Yellow - where first tank is engaged
MW 44.jpg
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headwest
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Re: Map of Villers-Bocage Battle?

Post by headwest » 06 Feb 2020 19:08

I FOUND IT!!!! YAY!

i had the wrong forum! here is the post in Warrelics forum. This is the person who located all the spots! i am def off in my map!

i think i recognize the large, old house in his CP picture. See what you guys think. you probably know the streets and area better than I, then i can update my pins!

thanks!

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/after-bat ... ow-675555/

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