panzer grenadiers

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yantaylor
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Re: panzer grenadiers

Post by yantaylor » 23 Mar 2020 20:40

Thank you, Max.,

I believe that all Africa Korps infantry were fully motorized with the 5TH Light [125. & 192 PGRs] and 15. Pz [104. & 115.] being mounted in trucks. The weapons for the Infantry companies are 18 x LMGs, 2 x HMGs + 2 x 8cm Mortars, later they added a couple of ATGs. I remember reading about how they DAK dropped the 5cm mortars, saying that they were no use in desert, so would the Afrika Korps have the power to drop the basic KStN to one which suited they own needs?

Ian

Max104740
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Re: panzer grenadiers

Post by Max104740 » 25 Mar 2020 15:17

Hi Yan,
what a pity that you did not keep trace of the Gebirsjager KStN, for me it would be useful to understand if it is from an original document or if it is a reconstruction made by someone with this hobby, like me, that by definition is only temptative.
Regarding the Afrika Korps units I have not particular information, I underline that standard Schutzen companies changed their 3 50 mm mortars with 2 80 mm with the passage from the KStN 1114 of February 41 to the November 41 one.
It is possible that in the meanwhile was issued a 1114 (Afr) KStN, like the 23 April 42 one that you can find in WW2DaybyDay site, and we lost it.
I must underline that I have no my site, the one I linked in my post are of Gary Kennedy, Christoph Awender and Leo Niehorster, I am only a grateful user of them.
I hope this was useful for you,
Regards
Max

yantaylor
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Re: panzer grenadiers

Post by yantaylor » 25 Mar 2020 15:37

Sorry Max I thought you had a hand in the WW2DaybyDay site.

I remember searching for data on Gebirsjager, I wouldnt have posted it up if I knew it was a reconstruction.

Thanks for you help it is always usful.
Ian

Max104740
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Re: panzer grenadiers

Post by Max104740 » 25 Mar 2020 16:30

No problem Yan
Max

yantaylor
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Re: panzer grenadiers

Post by yantaylor » 28 Mar 2020 17:40

I have found some data concerning DAK, so I don’t know if it is right or if it still exists, but are there two versions of KStN 1113, one standard version and one titled KStN 1113 (Afrika).

Ian

Max104740
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Re: panzer grenadiers

Post by Max104740 » 28 Mar 2020 21:35

Hi Yan,
At the moment in the period we know as existent only a November 41 and March 42 version of KStN 1113, for the second there was an armoured version too, the two march 42 version are in WW2 daybyday site, and we have no Afrika version.
It is possible you have found something by now not known, can you give us some more details?
Regards
Max

yantaylor
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Re: panzer grenadiers

Post by yantaylor » 29 Mar 2020 15:09

Hi Max, it was from the book ‘Tip of the Spear’ it says;

21. Panzer Division Aufklärungs Abteilung 3 (mot) The 3rd company was redesignated as a (motorized) scout company, with an organisation unique to Africa (KStN 1113 [Afrika] 23 April 1942)

Thats all itsays really, so it would be great to track it down if it is out there.

Regards
Ian

Max104740
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Re: panzer grenadiers

Post by Max104740 » 30 Mar 2020 17:34

Hy Yan,
it is possible, on 23/04/42 two panzertruppen KStN specific for Afrika were certainly issued, a 1114 and a 1118, no 1113 one was known by now but this it is not enough, often a new KStN is discovered. But it may also be a typo, I have not that book but there should be a note that gives the source of that information, can verify?
Regards
Max

yantaylor
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Re: panzer grenadiers

Post by yantaylor » 30 Mar 2020 20:42

Here is the source of the book Max;

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=exX ... 42&f=false

Ian

Max104740
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Re: panzer grenadiers

Post by Max104740 » 02 Apr 2020 13:36

Hy Yan,
Very interesting these “Tip of the Spear” pages, unfortunately the note on page 507 gives us a secondary source, Veit Scherzer’s book, that I don’t know, I hope in a primary source, like a NARA roll, that I could check.
On the other hand I checked this organization in Niehorster 4.I book, it gives (page 49) that both Panzer recce battalion in DAK had an Afrika company, but it gives a 1114 KStN, you can download this book from Niehorster’s site. I tried to check this information with the gliederung 42 in T 78 R404 H1 89.2 (page 153, you can download it from Sturmpanzer site), I found figures nearer to Niehorster book (18 lmg, 2 hmg, 3 heavy ATR, but 4 ATG and no mortar).
At page 80 Niehorster book gives a reference to a BAMA file, RH 12-21/v. 8, if someone on the forum had it he could tell us something.

I hope this was useful for you,
Regards
Max

yantaylor
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Re: panzer grenadiers

Post by yantaylor » 04 Apr 2020 16:04

Hi Max, yes it would be nice if some more on the forum could chip in with some data.

I don't know how acurate Nafzeiger is as his books are old, but they do have Afrika Korps Infantry companies being well armed, mainly due to more weapons actually getting through then men, so you see in his writtings that the companies do look top heavy in armament.

Allways a pleasure to do conversation with you Max and your data is always helpful.

Regards
Ian

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