Front Aufklärungs Kommando
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K.Kocjancic
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Re: Front Aufklärungs Kommando
Does anyone have any information on FAT 257 and 258?
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Tamari
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Re: Front Aufklärungs Kommando FAT 257 and FAT 258
Hi K. Kocjancic,
a short answer. I will check my database for further information.
FAT 257 and FAT 258
I have also some information about Hubert Pfannenstiel, OC of FAT 257.
Best regards
Robert
a short answer. I will check my database for further information.
FAT 257 and FAT 258
I have also some information about Hubert Pfannenstiel, OC of FAT 257.
Best regards
Robert
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K.Kocjancic
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Tamari
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FAT 257 and FAT 258
Hello Klemen,
first of all may can I ask a question? What is the context of your interest in the Frontaufklärungstrupps 257 and 258?
Here are some additional information on both units and its members:
FAT 257 and FAT 258 were subordinated to Frontaufklärungskommando 211 in Italy. FAK 211 (CO : Major Hans von Uslar) and its subordinated FAT's were more or less build up one by one since September 1943 in Klagenfurt/ Austria as a reaction to the Allied invasion and the breakaway of Italy from the Axis.
Main goal of these units was to conduct sabotage and diversion operations behind the advancing Allied frontlines against vital infrastructure like bridges, ports and pipelines and to prepare stay-behind structures including weapon caches. In most cases former facists and die-hard Italian soldiers of Elite units and party organizations ("Black Shirts") were recruited.
FAT 257
OC of FAT 257 Hauptmann Hubert Pfannenstiel from Bozen in South-Tyrol was possibly one of the Abwehr's more bad-ass officers. He was labelled in 1943 by his superiors as the only Abwehr sabotage/ stay-behind expert for Italy. He had disguised himself as a shepherd to infiltrate over the Allied frontlines. I think that he probably was a former Brandenburger but that's not finally cross-checked (see the pictures).
According to Perry Biddiscombe's "The SS Hunter Battalions" page 233, FAT 257 was specialized on sea-borne sabotage raids from Porto Garibaldi and Venice against Allied fuel pipelines. The unit had motorboats and dinghies in its arsenal and often members of the famous Italian naval special warfare unit Decima MAS were recruited by the Germans. They called their recruits "mules".
Leutnant z. S. Menges was quite likely in charge of these sea-borne operations.
FAT 257 had carried out fifteen raids in the last six month of the war but only six had a larger impact.
More members of FAT 257:
Oberfeldwebel Brandis from Innsbruck region was until the end of December 1944 Abwehrgehilfe in the unit.
FAT 258
While engaged in the Italian theatre Oberleutnant Wolfgang Graf von Saurma and Leutnant Friedrich Wilhelm Wodtke were the officers in command. But I have conflicting information about their concrete dates as OC. Wodtke was a veteran of the Eastern Front (see the picture about Wodtke).
see also: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=252302&p=2296962&hi ... a#p2296962
Oberleutnant Karl Schuster was later on the OC of FAT 258 according to Hauptmann Friedrich Hummel of Leitstelle für Frontaufklärung II West. I'm not sure if FAT 258 was at the end of the war send to the Western Front like its sister unit FAT 256 under the command of Dieter Weltzien/ Welzien.
More members of FAT 258:
Gefreiter Dr. Anton Deutsch
since September 1944 with FAT 258 and active as an interpreter and recruiter.
One of the premier sources for FAT 257 and FAT 258 is the interrogation report of Dr. Walter Keilholz who served with FAK 211 in Italy. The report is downloadable (at the moment for free) at the British National archive in Kew: KV-2/976 Dr. Walter Keilholz
All in all I definitely lack information about the specific operations of FAK 211 and its sub-ordinated Trupps although Perry Biddiscombe had delivered a lot of interesting stories about the Italian theatre from an overall perspective of the Abwehr II/ MilAmt D and to a lesser extent of the SS which was not less active in Italy in comparison to other theatres. I have to organize/ order the concrete KTB's maybe of AOK 10 and/or OB Süd and MilAmt D's war diary.
Best regards
Robert
first of all may can I ask a question? What is the context of your interest in the Frontaufklärungstrupps 257 and 258?
Here are some additional information on both units and its members:
FAT 257 and FAT 258 were subordinated to Frontaufklärungskommando 211 in Italy. FAK 211 (CO : Major Hans von Uslar) and its subordinated FAT's were more or less build up one by one since September 1943 in Klagenfurt/ Austria as a reaction to the Allied invasion and the breakaway of Italy from the Axis.
Main goal of these units was to conduct sabotage and diversion operations behind the advancing Allied frontlines against vital infrastructure like bridges, ports and pipelines and to prepare stay-behind structures including weapon caches. In most cases former facists and die-hard Italian soldiers of Elite units and party organizations ("Black Shirts") were recruited.
FAT 257
OC of FAT 257 Hauptmann Hubert Pfannenstiel from Bozen in South-Tyrol was possibly one of the Abwehr's more bad-ass officers. He was labelled in 1943 by his superiors as the only Abwehr sabotage/ stay-behind expert for Italy. He had disguised himself as a shepherd to infiltrate over the Allied frontlines. I think that he probably was a former Brandenburger but that's not finally cross-checked (see the pictures).
According to Perry Biddiscombe's "The SS Hunter Battalions" page 233, FAT 257 was specialized on sea-borne sabotage raids from Porto Garibaldi and Venice against Allied fuel pipelines. The unit had motorboats and dinghies in its arsenal and often members of the famous Italian naval special warfare unit Decima MAS were recruited by the Germans. They called their recruits "mules".
Leutnant z. S. Menges was quite likely in charge of these sea-borne operations.
FAT 257 had carried out fifteen raids in the last six month of the war but only six had a larger impact.
More members of FAT 257:
Oberfeldwebel Brandis from Innsbruck region was until the end of December 1944 Abwehrgehilfe in the unit.
FAT 258
While engaged in the Italian theatre Oberleutnant Wolfgang Graf von Saurma and Leutnant Friedrich Wilhelm Wodtke were the officers in command. But I have conflicting information about their concrete dates as OC. Wodtke was a veteran of the Eastern Front (see the picture about Wodtke).
see also: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=252302&p=2296962&hi ... a#p2296962
Oberleutnant Karl Schuster was later on the OC of FAT 258 according to Hauptmann Friedrich Hummel of Leitstelle für Frontaufklärung II West. I'm not sure if FAT 258 was at the end of the war send to the Western Front like its sister unit FAT 256 under the command of Dieter Weltzien/ Welzien.
More members of FAT 258:
Gefreiter Dr. Anton Deutsch
since September 1944 with FAT 258 and active as an interpreter and recruiter.
One of the premier sources for FAT 257 and FAT 258 is the interrogation report of Dr. Walter Keilholz who served with FAK 211 in Italy. The report is downloadable (at the moment for free) at the British National archive in Kew: KV-2/976 Dr. Walter Keilholz
All in all I definitely lack information about the specific operations of FAK 211 and its sub-ordinated Trupps although Perry Biddiscombe had delivered a lot of interesting stories about the Italian theatre from an overall perspective of the Abwehr II/ MilAmt D and to a lesser extent of the SS which was not less active in Italy in comparison to other theatres. I have to organize/ order the concrete KTB's maybe of AOK 10 and/or OB Süd and MilAmt D's war diary.
Best regards
Robert
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K.Kocjancic
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Re: FAT 257 and FAT 258
Hi! Thanks for the provided information. I have found mentions of their FPN in some reports, done by Slovenian partisans, regarding the presence of enemy forces. For example, FAT 258 was using the cover name of "Pionier-Versuch-Kmp. 258 ".
Regards,
Klemen
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Tamari
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Frontaufklärungskommandos - cover names
Good morning Klemen,
thank you for your reply. That's interesting.
FAK and FAT had often cover names which suggest less clandestine activities and deny the connection to the Abwehr.
FAK 212 which was also engaged in Italy and later transfered without its subordinated Frontaufklärungstrupps to the Eastern Front was labelled as Pioniersonderstab 212.
FAK 202 had in Landskron 35 km south of Cracow a training institution for Russians which was called Wirtschaftsschule Süd.
Another institution was covered as Arbeitsvermittlung Kirchhain.
Best regards
Robert
thank you for your reply. That's interesting.
FAK and FAT had often cover names which suggest less clandestine activities and deny the connection to the Abwehr.
FAK 212 which was also engaged in Italy and later transfered without its subordinated Frontaufklärungstrupps to the Eastern Front was labelled as Pioniersonderstab 212.
FAK 202 had in Landskron 35 km south of Cracow a training institution for Russians which was called Wirtschaftsschule Süd.
Another institution was covered as Arbeitsvermittlung Kirchhain.
Best regards
Robert
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Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: Front Aufklärungs Kommando
I didn't know that the Kriegmarine have their own FAKs and FATs. I know that the Kriegsmarine have MEK sabotage troops which did all the jobs of combat.
Edward L. Hsiao
Edward L. Hsiao
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K.Kocjancic
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Re: Front Aufklärungs Kommando
Can anyone recommend any good books (and articles) on FAT/FAK?
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Tamari
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Re: Front Aufklärungs Kommando
Hello Edward,
according to my knowledge and understanding Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe had no own FAK and FAT.
The Abwehr - which was in charge of the various FAK and FAT until its dis-integration and re-integration into Wehrmacht and RSHA structures in Spring/Summer 1944 - was a department of the OKW. The OKW was with all its limitations some kind of a "Joint command" although the "Joint" thinking was in my opinion never really implemented especially in comparison to the Western Allies' conduct of warfare.
In this context the Abwehr has to be a supporter and force multiplier for a all three military branches. Especially the departments Abwehr I (Intelligence collection) and Abwehr III (Counter-intelligence) mirrored with its structure p.e. Abwehr I H(eer), Abwehr I L(uftwaffe) and Abwehr I M(arine) the three branches. Collected information were shared with Fremde Heere West, Fremde Heere Ost and Fremde Luftwaffen West and Ost and Kriegsmarine's Naval Intelligence board.
In the ongoing war especially after the invasion of the Soviet-Union more mobile Abwehr units (Abwehrkommandos and Abwehrtrupps) of all three Abwehr departments were build up. After the tide had turned against Germany some Abwehrstellen (Ast) and Nebenstellen (Nest) had to be evacuated and instead once again more mobile units were build up with the later FAK and its subordinated FAT like in Italy in September 1943.
Some of these FAK and FAT had the specific role to collect intel about foreign navies and airforces and to inform the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine about their direct opponents.
FAK 60 (M)arine in France was such a unit as well FAK 180 (L)uft in the West. But there were other counter-intelligence FAK and FAT which had to safeguard a specific Kriegsmarine port or command structure or a Luftflotte against espionage and sabotage.
Department Abwehr II and later MilAmt D (Sabotage and diversion) were quite different in comparison to the other two departments. Abwehr II had also officers and soldiers of all three branches but it hadn't really mirrored the three branches in its structure. The Heer, its members and its demands had dominated in Abwehr II although Abwehr II had also in the early years Kriegsmarine officers like Kapitänleutnant Fetzer and Kapitänleutnant (Ingenieur) Laurinat for Kriegsmarine's irregular warfare demands. In addition the first Marineeinsatzkommandos (MEK) were build up under the auspice of Abwehrstelle Hamburg. The later Ritterkreuzträger Hauptmann Friedrich Hummel of Gruppe II of Abwehr's KO Spanien had conducted a lot of maritime sabotage raids against Allied shipping in the Gibraltar area.
Leutnant zur See S. Wengoborski, a merchant navy officer from Bremen, was a member of Nest Mytilene on the island of Lesbos and as well in charge of sabotage operations against Allied shipping in the Agean sea.
But regarding the FAK and FAT of Abwehr II ("Zweierorganisation") I do not see a mobile unit which was exclusivley tasked with sea- or airborne raids and which was "in possession" of or subordinatwd to the Kriegsmarine or the Luftwaffe.
Yes, FAT 257 in Italy had also conducted naval raids against the Western Allies but due to the favorable geographical environment of the Adriatic Coast for littoral maritime combat operations. But as I had mentioned the unit's leader was a well-regarded Abwehr officer maybe a former Brandenburger who had infiltrated enemy lines in disguise. For the naval component of its operations the Kriegsmarine officer Leutnant z. S. Menges was late in the war attached to FAT 257. But FAT 257 was no unit of the Kriegsmarine nevertheless Kriegsmarine had very often supported operations of Abwehr II/ MilAmt D with its E-boats, submarines and its expertise like the Luftwaffe had done it with its specialized KG 200.
I hope it is understandable what I want to say.
Best regards
Robert
according to my knowledge and understanding Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe had no own FAK and FAT.
The Abwehr - which was in charge of the various FAK and FAT until its dis-integration and re-integration into Wehrmacht and RSHA structures in Spring/Summer 1944 - was a department of the OKW. The OKW was with all its limitations some kind of a "Joint command" although the "Joint" thinking was in my opinion never really implemented especially in comparison to the Western Allies' conduct of warfare.
In this context the Abwehr has to be a supporter and force multiplier for a all three military branches. Especially the departments Abwehr I (Intelligence collection) and Abwehr III (Counter-intelligence) mirrored with its structure p.e. Abwehr I H(eer), Abwehr I L(uftwaffe) and Abwehr I M(arine) the three branches. Collected information were shared with Fremde Heere West, Fremde Heere Ost and Fremde Luftwaffen West and Ost and Kriegsmarine's Naval Intelligence board.
In the ongoing war especially after the invasion of the Soviet-Union more mobile Abwehr units (Abwehrkommandos and Abwehrtrupps) of all three Abwehr departments were build up. After the tide had turned against Germany some Abwehrstellen (Ast) and Nebenstellen (Nest) had to be evacuated and instead once again more mobile units were build up with the later FAK and its subordinated FAT like in Italy in September 1943.
Some of these FAK and FAT had the specific role to collect intel about foreign navies and airforces and to inform the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine about their direct opponents.
FAK 60 (M)arine in France was such a unit as well FAK 180 (L)uft in the West. But there were other counter-intelligence FAK and FAT which had to safeguard a specific Kriegsmarine port or command structure or a Luftflotte against espionage and sabotage.
Department Abwehr II and later MilAmt D (Sabotage and diversion) were quite different in comparison to the other two departments. Abwehr II had also officers and soldiers of all three branches but it hadn't really mirrored the three branches in its structure. The Heer, its members and its demands had dominated in Abwehr II although Abwehr II had also in the early years Kriegsmarine officers like Kapitänleutnant Fetzer and Kapitänleutnant (Ingenieur) Laurinat for Kriegsmarine's irregular warfare demands. In addition the first Marineeinsatzkommandos (MEK) were build up under the auspice of Abwehrstelle Hamburg. The later Ritterkreuzträger Hauptmann Friedrich Hummel of Gruppe II of Abwehr's KO Spanien had conducted a lot of maritime sabotage raids against Allied shipping in the Gibraltar area.
Leutnant zur See S. Wengoborski, a merchant navy officer from Bremen, was a member of Nest Mytilene on the island of Lesbos and as well in charge of sabotage operations against Allied shipping in the Agean sea.
But regarding the FAK and FAT of Abwehr II ("Zweierorganisation") I do not see a mobile unit which was exclusivley tasked with sea- or airborne raids and which was "in possession" of or subordinatwd to the Kriegsmarine or the Luftwaffe.
Yes, FAT 257 in Italy had also conducted naval raids against the Western Allies but due to the favorable geographical environment of the Adriatic Coast for littoral maritime combat operations. But as I had mentioned the unit's leader was a well-regarded Abwehr officer maybe a former Brandenburger who had infiltrated enemy lines in disguise. For the naval component of its operations the Kriegsmarine officer Leutnant z. S. Menges was late in the war attached to FAT 257. But FAT 257 was no unit of the Kriegsmarine nevertheless Kriegsmarine had very often supported operations of Abwehr II/ MilAmt D with its E-boats, submarines and its expertise like the Luftwaffe had done it with its specialized KG 200.
I hope it is understandable what I want to say.
Best regards
Robert
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Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: Front Aufklärungs Kommando
Dear Robert,
Thank you for your long detailed answer! I understand the organizations! By the way MEKs of the Kriegsmarine are the ones I've been studying with limited information!
Edward L. Hsiao
Thank you for your long detailed answer! I understand the organizations! By the way MEKs of the Kriegsmarine are the ones I've been studying with limited information!
Edward L. Hsiao
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Tamari
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Re: Front Aufklärungs Kommando
Hi Klemen,
damn
I had written a very long and detailed answer to your question but I was logged out once again.
So to keep a long story short, to find a comprehensive book or articles about the Frontaufklärungseinheiten is difficult especially about the ones of Abwehr I and Abwehr III or MilAmt B and MilAmt C and Leitstelle für Frontaufklärung I West and Ost and III West and Ost.
About the FAK and FAT of Abwehr II/ MilAmt D and/or the Zweierorganisation in general Perry Biddiscombe's "The SS Hunter Battalions" which is about the SS-Jagdverbände is by far the best book and also a very readable one. It is based on a tremendous amount of sources and covers a lot of FAK and FAT, their personell and their operations.
In general you have to find the information about the Frontaufklärungseinheiten in the various national archives and in a lot of books and articles but they offer you in most of the cases only splinter information.
Stick to Perry Biddiscombe's book.
Best regards
Robert
damn
I had written a very long and detailed answer to your question but I was logged out once again.
So to keep a long story short, to find a comprehensive book or articles about the Frontaufklärungseinheiten is difficult especially about the ones of Abwehr I and Abwehr III or MilAmt B and MilAmt C and Leitstelle für Frontaufklärung I West and Ost and III West and Ost.
About the FAK and FAT of Abwehr II/ MilAmt D and/or the Zweierorganisation in general Perry Biddiscombe's "The SS Hunter Battalions" which is about the SS-Jagdverbände is by far the best book and also a very readable one. It is based on a tremendous amount of sources and covers a lot of FAK and FAT, their personell and their operations.
In general you have to find the information about the Frontaufklärungseinheiten in the various national archives and in a lot of books and articles but they offer you in most of the cases only splinter information.
Stick to Perry Biddiscombe's book.
Best regards
Robert
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K.Kocjancic
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Re: Front Aufklärungs Kommando
OK, thanks. I have the book, but I was wondering if there is anything alse.Tamari wrote: ↑15 Mar 2021 15:43Hi Klemen,
damn
I had written a very long and detailed answer to your question but I was logged out once again.
So to keep a long story short, to find a comprehensive book or articles about the Frontaufklärungseinheiten is difficult especially about the ones of Abwehr I and Abwehr III or MilAmt B and MilAmt C and Leitstelle für Frontaufklärung I West and Ost and III West and Ost.
About the FAK and FAT of Abwehr II/ MilAmt D and/or the Zweierorganisation in general Perry Biddiscombe's "The SS Hunter Battalions" which is about the SS-Jagdverbände is by far the best book and also a very readable one. It is based on a tremendous amount of sources and covers a lot of FAK and FAT, their personell and their operations.
In general you have to find the information about the Frontaufklärungseinheiten in the various national archives and in a lot of books and articles but they offer you in most of the cases only splinter information.
Stick to Perry Biddiscombe's book.
Best regards
Robert
Bis bald,
Klemen
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Tamari
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Frontaufklärungskommandos - literature
Hi Klemen,
unfortunately not. A wait a minute, maybe you can find in Tesapides, Byron: „German Intelligence and Secrect Agencies in Greece during WW II 1941- 1944” more about this topic. But as far as I know on 255 pages he covers also the Geheime Feldpolizei, Otto Begus 2000er and 3000er networks and the SD units in Greece.
https://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/inde ... 1941-1944/
So I don't know on how many pages FAK 201 under the command of Karl Strojil, Otto Modriniak and Oberleutnant Murad Ferid and the sister FAK and FAT of Abwehr I and Abwehr III are covered.
Best regards
Robert
unfortunately not. A wait a minute, maybe you can find in Tesapides, Byron: „German Intelligence and Secrect Agencies in Greece during WW II 1941- 1944” more about this topic. But as far as I know on 255 pages he covers also the Geheime Feldpolizei, Otto Begus 2000er and 3000er networks and the SD units in Greece.
https://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/inde ... 1941-1944/
So I don't know on how many pages FAK 201 under the command of Karl Strojil, Otto Modriniak and Oberleutnant Murad Ferid and the sister FAK and FAT of Abwehr I and Abwehr III are covered.
Best regards
Robert
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K.Kocjancic
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Re: Frontaufklärungskommandos - literature
Thanks for the suggestion!Tamari wrote: ↑15 Mar 2021 20:50Hi Klemen,
unfortunately not. A wait a minute, maybe you can find in Tesapides, Byron: „German Intelligence and Secrect Agencies in Greece during WW II 1941- 1944” more about this topic. But as far as I know on 255 pages he covers also the Geheime Feldpolizei, Otto Begus 2000er and 3000er networks and the SD units in Greece.
https://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/inde ... 1941-1944/
So I don't know on how many pages FAK 201 under the command of Karl Strojil, Otto Modriniak and Oberleutnant Murad Ferid and the sister FAK and FAT of Abwehr I and Abwehr III are covered.
Best regards
Robert
Regards,
Klemen
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Tamari
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Frontaufklärungskommando Thöring - Oberstleutnant Thöring
Tamari wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021 23:36Hello,
I would like to add something about a Frontaufklärungskommando in Denmark and its three subordinated Frontaufklärungstrupps.
Source: British National Archive KV-2-3302 Robert Karl Friedrich Sauber
Frontaufklärungskommando Thöring was named after its leader Oberstleutnant Thöring and was formed from the Abwehrstelle Kopenhagen's Gruppe I (I Heer, I Luft, I Marine) which was disbanded in early 1944.
Frontaufklärungskommando Thöring
Frontaufklärungstrupp 141 (Aarhus and later Vyborg)
Leader: Oberleutnant Robert Karl Friedrich Sauber
Frontaufklärungstrupp 142 ()
Leader: Hauptmann Roessler
Frontaufklärungstrupp 143 ()
Leader: Korvettenkapitän Bendixen
Bendixen was a former member of Gruppe I of Abwehrnebenstelle (Nest) Antwerpen => https://www.nisa-intelligence.nl/PDF-be ... Dierks.pdf
It seems that Oberstleutnant Thöring was at the beginning of the war head of Referat I H West 1 in the Abwehr Headquarters at the Tirpitzufer in Berlin.
https://www.westervoort1940.nl/abwI.html
Best regards
Robert
Hello,
I've found additional information about Oberstleutnant Thöring who was in charge of the Frontaufklärungskommando Thöring in Denmark.
According to CIA-files Thöring was born in 1888.
At the beginning of the war he was Major d. R. and served with Abwehr I-H (West) in the Abwehr HQ in Berlin, where he led the evaluation department Referat 1.
It was also mentioned that Thöring was close to Admiral Canaris and that he was no friend of the Nazis.
Best regards
Robert
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