Beobacht Abt. TO&E???

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Hoyt Burrass
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Joined: 08 Apr 2021 15:05
Location: Alabama, USA

Beobacht Abt. TO&E???

Post by Hoyt Burrass » 16 May 2021 13:46

Does anyone have a standard TO&E for Beobacht Abt (Listening Batalion)...Or more specifically one for leichte Beob. Abt. 17. This specific unit was amongst those trapped at Velikiye Luki (according to Reinhard Tiemann's book on the 83rd Infantry Division)

Thanks for any help.

wwilson
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Posts: 181
Joined: 29 Sep 2012 08:33

Re: Beobacht Abt. TO&E???

Post by wwilson » 17 May 2021 06:37

An outline structure can be seen here: https://www.feldgrau.com/WW2-German-32n ... Abteilung/

Parts of the detailed structure can be seen here: http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstnartilleriemain.htm

And a bit more here (in German): http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Zus ... lArt-R.htm

Cheers

CNE503
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Location: Bourges, Berry, France

Re: Beobacht Abt. TO&E???

Post by CNE503 » 17 May 2021 11:56

Excellent!
Unfortunately, there is no mention about the organization of a Lichtmess-Zug.

Do you know how it was organized in 1939-1941?

Regards,
CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"

wwilson
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Joined: 29 Sep 2012 08:33

Re: Beobacht Abt. TO&E???

Post by wwilson » 17 May 2021 19:01

CNE503 wrote:
17 May 2021 11:56
Excellent!
Unfortunately, there is no mention about the organization of a Lichtmess-Zug.

Do you know how it was organized in 1939-1941?

Regards,
CNE503
We should recall the magnificent gift given to us by Dr. Niehorster -- his volumes on German organization are available, free of charge (Thank you, Dr. Niehorster)

This volume has notes on the 1941 organization of an artillery observation battalion, on page 38.

http://niehorster.org/011_germany/books ... -08-07.pdf

Cheers

fox3-6
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Joined: 29 Jul 2020 18:15
Location: St. Louis

Re: Beobacht Abt. TO&E???

Post by fox3-6 » 06 Jun 2021 03:12

Hello - i wanted to follow up and see if there are any pictures of the sound listening equipment?

is it just headphones with some sort of sound receiving device that is man portable? Or is it a big piece of equipment that is mounted on their trucks?

I have not been able to find any pictures of this "sound receiving equipment."

Simon Trew 1
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Joined: 29 May 2017 07:46
Location: UK

Re: Beobacht Abt. TO&E???

Post by Simon Trew 1 » 07 Jun 2021 09:18

Hoyt et al,

I don't have detailed knowledge of Eastern Front stuff, but I do have the following sources ref. observation units in Normandy. Froben probably contains material about the battalion that interests you. My copy is at work and I am at home but I can look if you want. Let me know if you are still interested.

A short study (in English!) of how artillery observation units functioned in combat, linked to case studies, would be nice. Obviously. Froben provides great detail. But the book is quite rare (I think - currently there are two copies on Abebooks, both priced at over £100 / ($120)) and the text is really only accessible to those with good German-language skills (i.e. not me).

Anyway, these are the references I have in my source guide to the German perspective on the Normandy campaign. Hope it is of some interest.

Simon

Charpentier, Loïc: L’Artillerie de Campagne de la Wehrmacht Durant la Seconde Guerre Mondiale (caraktère presse & éditions, Aix-en-Provence 1019; 176pp., illustrations). This French-language book contains a considerable amount of information about the weapons and ammunition used by many German non-divisional artillery units that fought in Normandy, and about their support units. The text is supported by numerous illustrations, many of them in colour.

Engelmann, Joachim and Scheibert, Horst: Deutsche Artillerie 1934-1945 (C. A. Starke Verlag, Limburg/Lahn 1974; 303pp., maps, illustrations). Pages 183-92 of this German-language book describe how artillery observation units (sound ranging and flash spotting batteries) performed their functions in battle. Four of these battalions, plus several smaller units, were present in Normandy.

Froben, Hans: Aufklärende Artillerie: geschichte der Beobachtungsabteilungen und selbständingen Beobachungsbatterien bis 1945 (Schild Verlag GmbH, München 1972; 983pp., maps, illustrations). This is a German-language history of Heer and Luftwaffe (but not Waffen-SS) artillery observation units during the Second World War. Four Army battalions of this type participated in the Normandy campaign (Beobachtungsabteilungen 14, 27, 28 and 33). A map on page 428 shows their areas of operation during summer 1944. Information about their activities is on pp.222, 362-3, 371-2 and 429-32. There is also a section about their organisation and equipment, and how they supported German artillery throughout the war (pp.36-56).

‘Field Artillery’. This intelligence report casts light on successes achieved by German observation batteries in identifying U.S. artillery positions in Normandy. See First U.S. Army’s G-2 Weekly Periodic Report No.3, issued 5 July 1944 (U.S. National Archives, RG 407, Box 1392, 101-2.1 FUSA G-2 weekly periodic reports, 20 June – 25 August 1944).

‘Prisoner of War Interrogation Report’. This report describes flash spotting and sound ranging techniques used by an observation battalion in LXXXIV Corps’ sector in July 1944. See Annex to U.S. V Corps’ G-2 Periodic Report No.53, issued 30 July 1944 (U.S. National Archives, RG 407, Box 1402, 101-2.2 FUSA G-2 Journal and File, 30 July 1944).

‘Sound ranging’. This intelligence report is in Part II of British Second Army’s Intelligence Summary No.55, issued 30 July 1944 (UK National Archives, WO 171/221). It contains information provided by captured personnel from 27th Artillery Observation Battalion about their unit’s organisation and equipment. There is also a detailed description of sound ranging techniques used in Normandy.

Sound-ranging and flash spotting techniques used by panzer artillery observers in Normandy are clearly described in a report based on the interrogation of a member of 10th SS Panzer Artillery Regiment; see UK National Archives, WO 208/3594 (SIR 620, 29 July 1944) for details. Additional information about these topics, provided by a member of 2nd SS Panzer Artillery Regiment, is in WO 208/3635 (LF/514, 15 August 1944). See also ‘Artillery’, in Interrogation of Prisoners of War report attached to U.S. VII Corps’ G-2 Periodic Report No.59, issued 3 August (U.S. National Archives, RG 407, Box 1403, 101-2.2 FUSA G-2 Journal and File, 4 August 1944).

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