The strength of LSSAH at the time of its return to the Ostfront in November 1943

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2KILFA
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The strength of LSSAH at the time of its return to the Ostfront in November 1943

Post by 2KILFA » 11 Aug 2021 14:35

Do members of the group have information about the personnel strength of the division at the time of its return to the Eastern Front in the Ukraine from Italy in November 1943?
I'm particularly interested to know the strength of its combat elements, like Gefechtsstärke, Kampfstärke etc.
The Sollstärke of the division around this time was ~25,000 personnel, but of course that includes large number of non-combat elements that have nothing to do with actual combat.
If possible, direct references to the numbers provided would be good.

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Re: The strength of LSSAH at the time of its return to the Ostfront in November 1943

Post by Roger Sterling » 12 Aug 2021 02:46

As far as i know they were at full strength, with ALL the tiger companies that eventually became 101st SS Swhere Panzer battalion. They were sent to Italy directlty from Kursk in July 1943 to gurard Northern Itaty from possible Allied amphibous assault.
They were in good condition less than 5,000 causualties were made up with new replacements and equipment. CO Dietrich pulled strings so kept his Tigers unlike other Panzer commanders had to give up theirs.With an entitre battalion of Tigers, and requiped with new Panther tanks, now they were probably the strongest they ever were, even when later Tiger 2's were permanenntly attached to the panzer regiment. They trained hard for 4 months with only partisan patrols to attand with
When they left for the OST front in November 1943, the 3rd Tiger company was sent to France while the other 2 remained with LSSAH to serve, until remants of the division were withdrawn after 5 months of battling the Red Army (which completely outnumbered them) , from its bloodiest campaign yet, repacements were usually not sent directly to the front line, so when they were withdrawn to France in April 1944, through bloody attrition barely 2,000 personnel were still serving, they had to make up replacements from the stilling training 12 SS which was overstrength with 23,000 in anticipation of replacing losses in LSSAH

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Re: The strength of LSSAH at the time of its return to the Ostfront in November 1943

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 14 Aug 2021 15:05

These aren't the precise numbers you are asking for, but the 1 December strength report (NARA T78 R718) lists the following:

Code: Select all

                            Authorized   Shortfall             In previous month                     Replacements
                                                     Dead   Wounded   Missing   Ill   Other   Replacements   Recovered
Officers                           872         392     14        38         0     4       0             18           0
Non-commissioned officers        4 900       1 768      *         *         *     *       *              *           *
Enlisted                        17 826       1 058    349     1 251        33   129       0            169           0
Foreign volunteers               1 804         961     **        **        **    **      **             **          **
Total                           25 402       4 179    363     1 289        33   133       0            187           0
* Included in enlisted numbers
** Not included in report

This suggests that the total strength on 1 November was:
  • Officers: 872 - 392 + (14 + 38 + 4) - 18 = 518 out of 872
  • Non-commissioned officers and enlisted: (4900 + 17826) - (1768 + 1058) + (349 + 1251 + 33 + 129) - 169 = 21 496 out of 22 729

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Re: The strength of LSSAH at the time of its return to the Ostfront in November 1943

Post by Алексей » 15 Aug 2021 10:20

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Re: The strength of LSSAH at the time of its return to the Ostfront in November 1943

Post by Алексей » 29 Aug 2021 13:01

LSSAH_Личный состав на 11.10.43_175202_277.jpg
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Re: The strength of LSSAH at the time of its return to the Ostfront in November 1943

Post by 2KILFA » 03 Sep 2021 12:16

Roger Sterling, Christian Ankerstjerne, Алексей,

Appreciate the info. Since we are at this topic, do you have personnel strength reports and losses from December 1943 to April 1944, until all remaining elements of LSSAH were withdrawn from Ukraine? Some info are provided in Lexikon der Wehrmacht, but its incomplete.

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Re: The strength of LSSAH at the time of its return to the Ostfront in November 1943

Post by FORBIN Yves » 09 Sep 2021 18:15

Look Kiev 1943 topic for later the best is Fire Brigade the books or here https://blog.sturmpanzer.com/online-doc ... desarchiv/

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