Grave Bridge

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm and Fallschirmjäger and the other Luftwaffe ground forces. Hosted by Christoph Awender.
Richard Anderson
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Re: Grave Bridge

Post by Richard Anderson » 28 Nov 2021 20:16

Brady wrote:
28 Nov 2021 19:54
WoW, on the 18th of September at the start of the attack they reorganized them.
Sorry, I was not clear. Divisions Nr. 190 mobilized by the code words ALARM KÜSTE as and Einsatz-Division on 18 September 1944 at Neuminster. Landesschützen-Ausbildungs-Bataillon I./6. was reorganized as Divisions-Füsilier-Bataillon 190. sometime in December 1944 after Division Nr. 190. was reorganized as Infanterie-Division 190. on 4 November 1944.

Landesschützen-Ausbildungs-Bataillon I./6. mobilized on 17 September by the code word WÄLKURE...and of course by the fact that the 504th PIR was descending on them from above. :D I suspect when it mobilized it probably sucked up all the various Polizei, Orts, and Ersatz personnel in the area not formally part of its establishment. For example, there was also a Kriegsmarine unit stationed in Grave, 2. Marine-Kraftfahr-Einsatz-Abteilung.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

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Christoph Awender
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Re: Grave Bridge

Post by Christoph Awender » 29 Nov 2021 13:36

Hello,

The KIA in the area Nijmegen 19.-25.Sept.1944 were from following units:
Fallsch.Flak.Rgt.(mot)11
Fliegerhorstkompanie E(v) 230 + 231/XI
6./Gen.Rgt.1036
Lw.Jg.Btl.z.b.V.6
Landesschützenzug 312/VI
Landeschützenzug 291/VI
2./Flakabt.572 (b-mot);

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Re: Grave Bridge

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 29 Nov 2021 14:25

Brady, as I said elsewhere we can identify the units which "countered" the landings but not who was in the garrison before the landings, annoying as that may be to me personally !
Alan

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Re: Grave Bridge

Post by OpanaPointer » 29 Nov 2021 14:27

"Let's call it 'Gravy', so the troops won't be so nervous." Another straw fully grasped.
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Re: Grave Bridge

Post by Brady » 29 Nov 2021 16:05

Thanks Guy's it may be a puzzle that we never fully solve the grave Business.

So to be clear:

Landesschützen-Ausbildungs-Bataillon I./6.

Did not exist officially until after they had landed, the paratroopers ?

So while members of the units that were the area it was formed, may of participated in the fighting at the bridge we can say for certain what units those were.

The Casuality's listed above, for are around Nijmegen, would those include the area around Grave ?

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Re: Grave Bridge

Post by Richard Anderson » 29 Nov 2021 16:20

Brady wrote:
29 Nov 2021 16:05
So to be clear:

Landesschützen-Ausbildungs-Bataillon I./6.

Did not exist officially until after they had landed, the paratroopers ?

So while members of the units that were the area it was formed, may of participated in the fighting at the bridge we can say for certain what units those were.
No, it existed, but only as a training unit for Landesschützen. It was mobilized as a field unit on 17 September.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

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Re: Grave Bridge

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 29 Nov 2021 18:24

Christoph, are you entirely happy with there being such a unit as "Fallsch.Flak.Rgt.(mot)11" ? I could understand a Bataillon or Abteilung but a Regiment seems a bit too large for the Fallschirm branch.
Alan

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Re: Grave Bridge

Post by Richard Anderson » 29 Nov 2021 18:52

Alanmccoubrey wrote:
29 Nov 2021 18:24
Christoph, are you entirely happy with there being such a unit as "Fallsch.Flak.Rgt.(mot)11" ? I could understand a Bataillon or Abteilung but a Regiment seems a bit too large for the Fallschirm branch.
It was organized January 1944 as Fallschirm-Flak-Regiment 1 and changed its designation in June, Nominally it was three battalions each of five batteries, but it was supposed to be in Italy as an element of I. FJ-Korps.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

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Re: Grave Bridge

Post by Tom Peters » 30 Nov 2021 14:28

Elements of FJ.Flak.Rgt.11 were used as infantry at Nijmegen and suffered badly. The "rgt" was likely a conglomerate unit put together from whoever had survived the retreat in France, and was probably only a few hundred men. It was not apparently used as a flak unit.

thanks,

Mad Dog

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Re: Grave Bridge

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 02 Dec 2021 12:37

Thank you both.
Alan

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