Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.'s for Pz.Abt's?

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donwhite
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Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.'s for Pz.Abt's?

Post by donwhite » 25 Nov 2021 10:02

Skimming through RH-10 109 in a document titled "Übersicht-Divisionen, Pz.Abt.,Pz.A.A., Heeres Pz.Jäg.Abt., Pz.Jäg.Abt.,StuG.Kp's (forming & refreshing) " for the 3.12.44 there is a reference for Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.'s under formation for various Pz.Abt. (I./Pz.Rgt.6, I./Pz.Rgt.11, I./Pz.Rgt 24, & I./Pz.Rgt.130). I'm familiar with Begl.units formed for StuG.Bdes and Begl.Zugs formed for Company sized units but not Pz.Abt.'s technically organic to Pz.Rgt.'s but I certainly have not seen any reference to such in published works on Panzer Divisions (Kamen Nevenkin's Fire Brigades etc). The specified units were possibly deployed at some stage as 'Heerestruppen' rather than with their parent Divisions and this could be a clue. Any pointers to further info/links/explanations most welcome.

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donwhite
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Re: Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.'s for Pz.Abt's?

Post by donwhite » 27 Nov 2021 04:48

The reference in question.
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kfbr392
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Re: Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.'s for Pz.Abt's?

Post by kfbr392 » 27 Nov 2021 10:29

interesting, first time I see this.
one should try to find the Schematische Kriegsgliederung of these four Panzer-Divisionen in the respective timeframe to see if these Begl.Kpn show up there...

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Re: Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.'s for Pz.Abt's?

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 27 Nov 2021 10:50

Is this perhaps something to do with the Infra-red Night Fighting equipment ? Trianing Panzergrenadiers to work directly with the Panthers at night ?
Alan

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Re: Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.'s for Pz.Abt's?

Post by akdavis » 27 Nov 2021 20:47

There is nothing on the Kriegsliederung for 6.Pz.Div. for January through April, but part of I./Pz.Rgt.11 was later involved in the use of "Sondergerät" as part of a KG Möws, which also incorporated a "Begleit Kp.":
RH_10_87_0003 KG Möws w. sondergerät 21Apr45.jpg
From RH10/87, Generalinspekteur der Panzertruppen KTB

Both the Feb.1 and Mar.1 Kriegsgliederung for 3.Pz.Div. show one company of I./Pz.Rgt.6 as "personell und/oder materiall nicht einsatzbereit" and is noted as in the homeland for retraining on "Sondergerät":
RH10_142_157 Pz.Rgt.6 1Mar45.jpg
3.Pz.Div. Mar. 1, 1945 Kreigsgliederung from RH10/142

Having trouble locating info on I./Pz.Rgt.24. It was not with 24.Pz.Div.

EDIT: found this on I./Pz.Rgt.24:
RH_10_217_0151 4._I._Pz.Rgt.24 with reference to ''Biwa'' 10Jan45.jpg
From RH10/217

The handwritten notations are beyond me, but "Biwa" seems to have been a code word for the Ultra-Rot "sondergerät". See reference to 1 Kp. I./130 [Biwa] here:
https://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/inde ... rschlacht/
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Re: Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.'s for Pz.Abt's?

Post by donwhite » 27 Nov 2021 23:01

Many thanks Gents.

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Re: Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.'s for Pz.Abt's?

Post by akdavis » 27 Nov 2021 23:24

Another association of 3 of these battalions with "Biwa":

From "Panzerverteilung Oktober" annex to Nov 4, 1944 Führer briefing notes:
RH_10_90_0113 ''Biwa'' Panther btls. 3Nov44.jpg
RH10/90
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Re: Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.'s for Pz.Abt's?

Post by akdavis » 28 Nov 2021 00:36

A bit more detail from 20 April 1945 Führer briefing notes, noting that 4./Pz.Rgt.11 has"10 Biwapanther" and Pz.Gren.Kp "Uelzen" has "14 Biwa SPW":
RH_10_91_0017 notes from Fuhrer briefing on KG Moews 20Apr45.jpg
RH10/91
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Re: Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.'s for Pz.Abt's?

Post by donwhite » 28 Nov 2021 23:06

I greatly appreciate the responses and additional information. Infra-red equipped units does seem to be the most likely fit. Thanks again.

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Re: Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.'s for Pz.Abt's?

Post by donwhite » 29 Nov 2021 06:31

From RH 10/121 regarding the authorised composition of one of the aformenentioned Pz.Abt. (I./Pz/Rgt.130) as of 13/1/45. Unfortunately no mention of a Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.!
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Re: Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.'s for Pz.Abt's?

Post by DirkAH » 30 Nov 2021 20:29

akdavis wrote:
27 Nov 2021 20:47
The handwritten notations are beyond me, but "Biwa" seems to have been a code word for the Ultra-Rot "sondergerät". See reference to 1 Kp. I./130 [Biwa] here:
https://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/inde ... rschlacht/
"Biwa" is the abbrevation for "Bildwandler", the equipment that turns infrared light into visible light.
Ciao

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Re: Pz.Gren.Begl.Kp.'s for Pz.Abt's?

Post by donwhite » 08 Dec 2021 01:54

A slightly earlier document also from RH 10/121 mentioning one Pz.Kp of I./Pz.Rgt.24 to be fitted out and trained with 'special equipment'.
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