I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

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Tom from Cornwall
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I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 02 Mar 2023 20:39

Hi,

A long shot I know, but I was wondering if anyone had any details for the early days of I/24 Pz Regt's employment in Normandy in 1944. I found a casualty card with the following details and wondered if there was any more information out there:

Obergefr. Mathias Kossmann - 3. Schwd. Panz. Regt. 24 - died 2.8.44 - Coulouvray-Boisbenatre (which seems to be about 20 km SW from Vire).

gefallen: Volltr. auf panzer u. Verbennungen.

I think the last line indicates that he was killed when his tank was completely burnt out - or perhaps that is an indication that his body was never recovered for the same reason?

All opinions and ideas gratefully received.

Regards

Tom

Michael Kenny
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Re: I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

Post by Michael Kenny » 03 Mar 2023 00:43

They fought the US 3rd Armoured Division & 4th Infantry Division at (1km short of )Coulouvray-Boisbenatre . This photo is claimed to be one of 4 destroyed on Aug 2 at that location but its not my area so best check.
abc 56.jpg
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Tom from Cornwall
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Re: I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 03 Mar 2023 09:49

Michael Kenny wrote:
03 Mar 2023 00:43
They fought the US 3rd Armoured Division & 4th Infantry Division at (1km short of )Coulouvray-Boisbenatre . This photo is claimed to be one of 4 destroyed on Aug 2 at that location but its not my area so best check.
Michael,

Thanks, that’s very helpful, I’ll see if I can dig up some US sources.

BTW it seems very likely that there are considerable gaps in the casualty cards on Ancestry - for example, I could only find two fatalities listed for any panzer troops in Normandy on 2 Aug 44.

Regards

Tom

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Westphalia1812
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Re: I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

Post by Westphalia1812 » 03 Mar 2023 14:16

Tom from Cornwall wrote:
02 Mar 2023 20:39
Hi,

A long shot I know, but I was wondering if anyone had any details for the early days of I/24 Pz Regt's employment in Normandy in 1944. I found a casualty card with the following details and wondered if there was any more information out there:

Obergefr. Mathias Kossmann - 3. Schwd. Panz. Regt. 24 - died 2.8.44 - Coulouvray-Boisbenatre (which seems to be about 20 km SW from Vire).

gefallen: Volltr. auf panzer u. Verbennungen.

I think the last line indicates that he was killed when his tank was completely burnt out - or perhaps that is an indication that his body was never recovered for the same reason?

All opinions and ideas gratefully received.

Regards

Tom
Only got a map of the overall fighting between 4.ID and 3.AD against 116.PzDiv. Maybe it helps:
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hucks216
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Re: I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

Post by hucks216 » 03 Mar 2023 15:30

The second copy of Kampfzone has the main article covering the unit in Normandy:

https://www.leapinghorseman.com.au/product/kampfzone/

Tom from Cornwall
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Re: I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 03 Mar 2023 16:28

Westphalia1812 wrote:
03 Mar 2023 14:16
Only got a map of the overall fighting between 4.ID and 3.AD against 116.PzDiv. Maybe it helps:
Hi,

Yes it does, many thanks.

Regards

Tom

Tom from Cornwall
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Re: I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 03 Mar 2023 16:28

hucks216 wrote:
03 Mar 2023 15:30
The second copy of Kampfzone has the main article covering the unit in Normandy:
That's a new series for me, thanks for posting the link, much appreciated.

Regards

Tom

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Westphalia1812
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Re: I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

Post by Westphalia1812 » 03 Mar 2023 16:44

Then there is the work by Didier Lodieu: https://www.modellbau-koenig.de/Literat ... r-Division
I gotta make sure they know who they messing with

Cruel Winter for those who chose to play God in Gods Country

Tom from Cornwall
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Re: I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 03 Mar 2023 20:55

Thanks, although my wallet and book shelves are groaning already.

Regards

Tom

Sam Wren
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Re: I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

Post by Sam Wren » 04 Mar 2023 03:04

Tom, there are considerable gaps in the cards. I would guess that a substantial percentage, probably 75 to 50% if not more are missing. I don't know the reasons for this but it is safe to assume some were destroyed due to combat. Many show water damage so it is possible that some were destroyed due to accidents while in storage after the war. I am only interested in the Normandy Campaign so don't have much of a grasp on the early war years and other fronts of the war, but just from the 21st Panzer Division, 16th LW Div and 716.Inf Div., the number of cards from these units are far lower than the fatal casualties suffered by these Divisions, especially - understandably - from 716.ID since it was virtually destroyed on D-Day and the capacity of the Division to observe such administrative niceties would have obviously been severely impaired.

Tom from Cornwall
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Re: I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 04 Mar 2023 12:09

Sam Wren wrote:
04 Mar 2023 03:04
Tom, there are considerable gaps in the cards. I would guess that a substantial percentage, probably 75 to 50% if not more are missing. I don't know the reasons for this but it is safe to assume some were destroyed due to combat. Many show water damage so it is possible that some were destroyed due to accidents while in storage after the war.
Hi Sam,

Thanks. That’s interesting, and frustrating at the same time. To be honest I’m more interested in the Italian campaign, but keep coming back to the Operation ‘Bluecoat’ period in Normandy and the US operations around Vire in early August 1944 and trying to understand what German units were involved as they appear to have been subunits from multiple formations. Unfortunately the best filter that can be done is by date, so it will take a long time to work through the database and see what units appear.

Regards

Tom

Rnox
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Re: I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

Post by Rnox » 04 Mar 2023 14:30

Good morning,

Another title, in French, by another author (very good author !!!) on the subject :

https://ysec.fr/produit/panzer-en-norma ... ic-deprun/

Rnox.

Tom from Cornwall
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Re: I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 04 Mar 2023 16:34

Rnox wrote:
04 Mar 2023 14:30
Good morning,

Another title, in French, by another author (very good author !!!) on the subject :

https://ysec.fr/produit/panzer-en-norma ... ic-deprun/

Rnox.
Thanks,

I hadn’t realised there were so many sources for 116 Pz Division in Normandy. :thumbsup:

Regards

Tom

Tom from Cornwall
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Re: I/24 Panzer Regiment, 116 Panzer Division - 2 Aug 44

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 04 Mar 2023 17:29

I finally managed to work out why I suddenly couldn't post an attachment. This is the casualty card that I meant to add to the first post:
Obergefreiter Matthias Kossmann - 3 Schw. Panz. Regt. 24 - Coulouvray-Boisbenatre - 2.8.44.jpg
Regards

Tom
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