Pak 88mm in Fallchrim-Artillery abteilung, August 1944

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kiwibirb
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Pak 88mm in Fallchrim-Artillery abteilung, August 1944

Post by kiwibirb » 02 Oct 2023 05:17

from t-78-r-269

as can be seen here, the 1,2 & 6th Fs.Art.Abt are listed as having x12 Pak 88mm

I know that the 77th infantry division received 12 such guns for its artillery battalion, and the
15., 26.(realloc. to 25pzgren), 82., 88., 167., 294., 327., 332., 333., 335. and 387. Inf.Div. recieved or were authorized 1 battery of 9 guns in their artillery abteilung, so Divisions did get organic Pak88

However, it seems strange to me that light divisions such as fallchrimjager would be allocated the massive pak88mm

Could these be flak88 mislabeled? or did they really receive such guns?

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Richard Anderson
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Re: Pak 88mm in Fallchrim-Artillery abteilung, August 1944

Post by Richard Anderson » 02 Oct 2023 06:31

kiwibirb wrote:
02 Oct 2023 05:17
from t-78-r-269

as can be seen here, the 1,2 & 6th Fs.Art.Abt are listed as having x12 Pak 88mm
Those are Regimenter not Abteilungen. They are referring to the armament within the Regiment. They were there because there was a shortage of heavier pieces to issue like the 15cm sFH and the 10cm sFK.
I know that the 77th infantry division received 12 such guns for its artillery battalion, and the
15., 26.(realloc. to 25pzgren), 82., 88., 167., 294., 327., 332., 333., 335. and 387. Inf.Div. recieved or were authorized 1 battery of 9 guns in their artillery abteilung, so Divisions did get organic Pak88
III./Artl-Regt. 185 also had 12 8.8cm Pak, as did III./Artl-Regt 184.
However, it seems strange to me that light divisions such as fallchrimjager would be allocated the massive pak88mm

Could these be flak88 mislabeled? or did they really receive such guns?
All the Fallschirmjäger divisionen after 1. and 2. were Fallschirm in name only. By the end of August these numbers were wishful thinking for 2,. 3., 5., and 6. FJD.
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Westphalia1812
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Re: Pak 88mm in Fallchrim-Artillery abteilung, August 1944

Post by Westphalia1812 » 03 Oct 2023 00:01

Richard Anderson wrote:
02 Oct 2023 06:31


All the Fallschirmjäger divisionen after 1. and 2. were Fallschirm in name only. By the end of August these numbers were wishful thinking for 2,. 3., 5., and 6. FJD.
You referring to these divisions not having jump training right?
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Re: Pak 88mm in Fallchrim-Artillery abteilung, August 1944

Post by Richard Anderson » 03 Oct 2023 00:19

Westphalia1812 wrote:
03 Oct 2023 00:01
Richard Anderson wrote:
02 Oct 2023 06:31


All the Fallschirmjäger divisionen after 1. and 2. were Fallschirm in name only. By the end of August these numbers were wishful thinking for 2,. 3., 5., and 6. FJD.
You referring to these divisions not having jump training right?
Indeed, plus the addition of a full artillery regiment with leFH and sFH instead of LG 40, and the Pak 40, and the 12cm sGrWerf, and the additional vehicles. They had limited to no jump capability and as intended to be organized in late 1944 they were hardly what one would call "light".
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Westphalia1812
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Re: Pak 88mm in Fallchrim-Artillery abteilung, August 1944

Post by Westphalia1812 » 03 Oct 2023 00:29

Richard Anderson wrote:
03 Oct 2023 00:19
Westphalia1812 wrote:
03 Oct 2023 00:01
Richard Anderson wrote:
02 Oct 2023 06:31


All the Fallschirmjäger divisionen after 1. and 2. were Fallschirm in name only. By the end of August these numbers were wishful thinking for 2,. 3., 5., and 6. FJD.
You referring to these divisions not having jump training right?
Indeed, plus the addition of a full artillery regiment with leFH and sFH instead of LG 40, and the Pak 40, and the 12cm sGrWerf, and the additional vehicles. They had limited to no jump capability and as intended to be organized in late 1944 they were hardly what one would call "light".
Still waiting for Invenio to upload some FJ and HG docs...Didn't 3.FJ get some jump exercises?
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Re: Pak 88mm in Fallchrim-Artillery abteilung, August 1944

Post by Richard Anderson » 03 Oct 2023 00:44

Westphalia1812 wrote:
03 Oct 2023 00:29
Still waiting for Invenio to upload some FJ and HG docs...Didn't 3.FJ get some jump exercises?
Like all Luftwaffe records they are fragmentary. Most of the extant records on HG are copies in the files of HG-C. 10. and 14. Armee, and LXXVI. Pz-Korps, all from Italy. There may be some for later 1944 in Ostfront records, but I have never looked.

Most of the FJD records are also from Italy for 1. and 4. FJD, while there is some for 2., 3., and 5. FJD for Normandy, the Westwall, and Ardennes in scattered files.
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Westphalia1812
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Re: Pak 88mm in Fallchrim-Artillery abteilung, August 1944

Post by Westphalia1812 » 03 Oct 2023 00:49

Richard Anderson wrote:
03 Oct 2023 00:44
Westphalia1812 wrote:
03 Oct 2023 00:29
Still waiting for Invenio to upload some FJ and HG docs...Didn't 3.FJ get some jump exercises?
Like all Luftwaffe records they are fragmentary. Most of the extant records on HG are copies in the files of HG-C. 10. and 14. Armee, and LXXVI. Pz-Korps, all from Italy. There may be some for later 1944 in Ostfront records, but I have never looked.

Most of the FJD records are also from Italy for 1. and 4. FJD, while there is some for 2., 3., and 5. FJD for Normandy, the Westwall, and Ardennes in scattered files.
I remember BAMA having the KTB for Pz.Rgt.HG but of course not digitalised, should probably look at some AOK 10 and 14 files
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Re: Pak 88mm in Fallchrim-Artillery abteilung, August 1944

Post by Richard Anderson » 03 Oct 2023 01:26

Westphalia1812 wrote:
03 Oct 2023 00:49
I remember BAMA having the KTB for Pz.Rgt.HG but of course not digitalised, should probably look at some AOK 10 and 14 files
I know the NARA microfilm has a continuous run of monthly KTD for 10. Armee from October 1943 through May 1944, although April 1944 is missing. It includes Panzerlage for every three days or so, as well as Gliederungen and so on.September 1943 and June 1944 is sketchy, and then it becomes fragmentary after June 1944.
Richard C. Anderson Jr.

American Thunder: U.S. Army Tank Design, Development, and Doctrine in World War II
Cracking Hitler's Atlantic Wall
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