Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

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Daniel L
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Post by Daniel L » 31 Oct 2002 22:50

His name was Bruno Witt, and here's a short synopsis:

The Wehrpass was issued on 2-40 and the Soldbuch on 10-41. Originally
assigned to the 3 Kp/ Transport Abt. 566 of the 16th Panzer Division where
he won the Eastern Front Medal, he spent most of his time with the 1 Kp/
Kriegsgef. Dachdecker Balt III, a guard unit that over saw a POW tile
roofing unit. However, late in the war he was assigned to the Feld Ers. Btl
Muncheberg, a front replacement unit of the Panzer Division "Muncheberg".

I like the photos of him; one pre-war and one war-time. You can see the
stress in his face. SBWitt4.jpg shows the 'Muncheberg' entry. I don't know
what the diagonal entry is on his soldbuch, but it looks like Russian
writing.


This was sent to me by Tony. I've got some scans which hopefully might end up in the article.

regards/ daniel

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Daniel L
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Post by Daniel L » 13 Nov 2002 16:40

Hi !

Paul statement, that no Panther with IR equipment
was ever used against the Allies, is correct. I whant
to apologize for the posting of incorrect information.
When I wrote my message I used only my memory. I checked
some files in my archive(various files of GenInspdPzTr
and OrgAbt/GenStbH) and now I'll try to "enlight" this
topic(IR Panthers).

An document issued by GenInspdPzTr on 26.6.44 states that,
according to Guderian orders, I./PzLehrR 130 will be the
first unit equiped with IR-PzV. This unit was created on
29.7.44,but was sent to the front(Western) without IR devices.

In the beginning of Oct'44 I./130 was sent back to the rear
(Fallingbostel training ground). Between 19.10 and 22.10.44
a total of 56 "simple" PzV(w/o IR) were recieved by this unit.

On 27.9.44 it was ordered to send I./PzR 6 (tactically subordinated
to PzLehrDiv) to Fallingbostel training ground for rebuilding.
Between 29.10 and 4.11.44 a total of 33 "simple"
PzV(w/o IR) were recieved by this unit.

On 7.11.44 I./130 was renamed in I./6 and vice versa.

On 29.8.44 it was orderd to send I./PzR 11(tactically subordinated
to 8.PzD) to Grafenwoenr training ground for
rebuilding. Between 22.10 and 27.10.44 a total of 28 "simple"
PzV (w/o IR) were recieved by this unit.

On 4.11.44 an subordination of 4./PzR 11 to newly formed PzBr 150
was ordered.

A toatal of 27 IR-PzV's were shipped from HZa to I./6 between
17.11 and 4.12.44

A toatal of 32 IR-PzV's were shipped from HZa to I./11 between
11.11 and 2.12.44

4 IR PzV's were shipped from HZa to I./130 on 9.12.44

All these units saw action in Hungary during Dec'44. The area
between lakes Balaton and Velence was, probably, the first
battleground where IR-PzV's were used.

On 5.1.45 it was ordered to send I./130 back to its parent division.
All available Panthers were left behind.

On 11.1.45 it was ordered to send I./24 to Hungary. This Abt was
tactically subordinated to 1.PzD. It was to be shipped from
Grafenwoenr training ground with 14 "simple" PzV. Another 46 "simple"
PzV's were to recieved during the transportation. However, according
to the records of GenInspdPzTr show that between 17.1 and 25.1.45 a
total of 50 "simple" PzV (w/o IR) were recieved by this unit. Probably
the remaining 10 PzV's were IR-PzV's(or some of them) left behind by
other units.

On 12.2.45 it was ordered one Kp of Fuehrer-Grenadier Division(1./101)
to be equiped with 10 IR-PzV's and 3 SdKfz 251/20. However, this order
was never materialized.

10 IR PzV's were recieved by 3./6 on 7.3.45. Right after that this Kp
was sent to its parent division(3.PzD)

On 13.3.45 it was ordered one Kp of 19.PzD and 26.PzD(4./27 and 3./26)
to be equiped with 10 IR-PzV's and 3 SdKfz 251/20 each.

On 16.3.45 it was ordered one PzKp of I./29 and one PzGrKp(of PzGR 25)
to be equiped with IR machines.

On 23.3.45 it was ordered one Kp of I./130, I./PzR "Brandenburg" and
KGr "Dreyer"(4./PzR 11) to be equiped with 10 IR-PzV's and 3 SdKfz
251/20 each.

On 23.3.45 10 IR-PzV's were shipped from HZa to the Kp of I./130 which
was mentioned above. Soon after that this Kp was shipped from Wuensdorf
training ground to Muencheberg area where it was tactically subordinated
to 25.PzGD.

On 1.4.45 1./29 and 2./PzGrR 25 was located in Wuensdorf training ground,
and 4./27, 3./26, 4./11 and 4./"Br" - in Fallingbostel training ground.
The same document states that a Kp of I./39 was sent from its parent
division(17.PzD) to Fallingbostel to be equiped with IR-PzV's.

10 IR PzV's were shipped from HZa to I./29 on 5.4.45.

10 IR PzV's were shipped from HZa to 4./11 on 8.4.45.

On 19.4.45 the personal of 3./26 was shipped to PzD "Muencheberg",
the personal of 4./27 - back to 19.PzD and the personal of 4./"Br"
- back to PzGD "Kurmark".

On 19.4.45 it was ordered 4./11 alongside with PzGKp "Uelzen"(equiped
with SPW's with IR) to be shipped from Wuensdorf training ground to
7.PzD in Neusterlitz area. However, this order was chaged twice and
on 22.4.45 both Kp were attached to KGr "Ritter" in Zossen area.

Have a nice day,

Kamen


from: http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1220

regards

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David C. Clarke
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Post by David C. Clarke » 13 Nov 2002 17:02

Great Job Daniel!!! Now of course you and I may have to mount a "Skorzeny Operation" in Bulgaria and kidnap Kamen. His knowledge and documentation are incredible!!! :lol:
Very Best Regards, David :D

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Daniel L
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Post by Daniel L » 13 Nov 2002 17:18

Only if you let me be the pilot... :D

regards

Timo
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Post by Timo » 13 Nov 2002 17:35

no Panther with IR equipment
was ever used against the Allies


Once more the Russians are not considered allies :roll:

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David C. Clarke
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Post by David C. Clarke » 13 Nov 2002 19:09

Hi Timo, don't worry my friend, we will have a chance to correct that and whatever other misconceptions that creep into the material. Very Best Regards, David :D

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Andy H
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Post by Andy H » 13 Nov 2002 19:17

Maybe it was just a slip of the tongue

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Daniel L
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Post by Daniel L » 13 Nov 2002 21:09

Here we go again. This is a model built by my fellow swede Mirko Bayerl. Mirko is somewhat of an expert on the IR sights and an excellent modeller as well.

Image

Panther Ausf,G with F.G.1250 (IR) Seelow heights,April 45

Panther nr 122 was commanded by Feldwebel Hoffmann. It first saw action with the IR-equipment between Gusow and Seelow (east of Berlin) around april 1945. It is hard to confirm total succsess,but indeed many Russian tanks and AT guns were destroyed that night by the unit. All in all there were 10 Panthers in a IR-company, supported by 3 UHU and Falke SPW,s (zug.Lt Draeger,Company Hptm.Steuer).This unit 1./29 (Pz.Div Müncheberg) was commanded by Oberlt.Rasim. On the engine deck there were two Grenadiers with IR-MP.44 (Z.G.1229) to protect the commander and the vehicle during the night.After the first night action with IR the 1./29 never saw action again as a whole unit. One Panther (121) saw light action in the center of Berlin.

Panther 122 was destroyed and knocked out east of Berlin in late April. The crew survived but the commander lost his arm and the others were lightly wounded. In this area was also other units (company) with IR Panther in action. There is some speculation why the Russians used the big searchlight around Seelow heights -it is liekly because they knew that the Germans used IR in this area and the IR Panther would not operate succsessful under such circumstanses.The IR panther was also "blind" in rain,fullmoon,fog etc .

from: http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/german/mbpanth/mbpanth.htm

best regards/ daniel

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Daniel L
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Post by Daniel L » 14 Nov 2002 18:12

http://www.charlemagne.it/berlino.htm
I found this, however the last words were a bit disturbing.


Image
Also, 'perserkatzendivision von müncheberg'. :wink:
from: http://www.vonmuencheberg.de/

regards

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David C. Clarke
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Post by David C. Clarke » 14 Nov 2002 19:01

Muncheberg Kittens? Oh, wait, early model Panther Ifra-Red Devices? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers, David

Timo
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Post by Timo » 14 Nov 2002 19:13

LOL, good one David :D

charlie don't surf, what are their names? Tiger and Panther? ;)

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Kamen Nevenkin
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Atn Mr.Skorzeny

Post by Kamen Nevenkin » 15 Nov 2002 17:17

deleated
Last edited by Kamen Nevenkin on 29 May 2005 08:35, edited 1 time in total.

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David C. Clarke
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Post by David C. Clarke » 15 Nov 2002 20:45

HeHehehehe!

It was just a proposal Kamen, of course we would never
REALLY do anything like that. I've go to go now and see a tall man about a ride in a Fiesler Storch. Be Well and Best Regards, David :D

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Daniel L
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Post by Daniel L » 30 Nov 2002 17:16

I found some Berlin photos that might be interesting, you've probably seen most of them before.

http://fronta.cz/index.php?action=11&barva=0&p_id=0&p_idpod=500

regards

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David C. Clarke
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Post by David C. Clarke » 30 Nov 2002 20:07

Hi Daniel, I didn't see anything really new here, but that is a great site. I intend to explore it for other purposes. Thanks! Very Best Regards, David :D

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