Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

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Jan-Hendrik
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Re: Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 09 Mar 2009 16:19

Spaeter's "The History of the Panzerkorps Grossdeutschland" Vol. 3, doesn't mention any subordination of this unit to Muncheberg--but things get a little confused at this time in the war!
In Gerald Ramm's Gott mit uns is a chapter with a report by a KOB of 5./Wachregiment GD. According to him they fought subordinated to the Division 'Berlin'.

Jan-Hendrik

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Marcus
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Re: Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

Post by Marcus » 09 Mar 2009 18:11

Dirk Jan wrote:I am new to this Forum and interested in Panzerregiment Müncheberg. Has the article that was announced in 2004, based on all the information already collected, ever been written? If so, where can I obtain it?
Unfortunately not yet, but when it is done it will be posted on http://www.axishistory.com

/Marcus

Dirk Jan
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Re: Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

Post by Dirk Jan » 10 Mar 2009 11:58

A very useful little book is "Seelow 1945, die Entsheidungsslacht an der Oder" (in German) by Richard Lakowski, ISBN 3-87748-634-7, in which Panzerregiment/division Müncheberg is mentioned several times. It also has some good military maps.

I am particularly interested in Hitlerjugend and Volkssturm. It is quite certain that Volkssturm reinforcements were added to the division in the last weeks of the war. Who knows how many, only old men or also Hitler youths, in which units of the division did they serve, were they there during the battle at the Oder, or only added when the division was retreating into Berlin?

Best regards,

Dirk Jan

Dirk Jan
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Re: Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

Post by Dirk Jan » 10 Mar 2009 12:28

From Zhukov's headquarters, coded message no. 00453 on 17 April 1945, daily battle report. I translated this from the Russian text and think it concerns Soviet units opposing Müncheberg:

32-nd Rifle Corps: isolated houses (2 km north of NEU LANGSOW), isolated houses (1 km east of GUSOW)

Ninth Rifle Corps - NEU LANGSOW, occupies WERBIG and attacks GUSOW
According to provisional information, during this day of battle in this section 2500 soldiers and officers, more than 50 artillery pieces and 45 mortars were destroyed. 400 enemy soldiers and officers were taken prisoner.

The Eight Guard Army broke through the first line of defence of the enemy in the first half of the day as a succesful result of a rapid attack. It broke the enemy's firing-defence and reached the line: fourth guards rifle corps(?)- southeast border of WERBIG, NEUWERBIG, eastern rim of SEELOW train station, excl. WEINBERG.

Kind regards,

Dirk Jan

Dirk Jan
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Re: Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

Post by Dirk Jan » 15 Mar 2009 18:39

Is anyone still reading this forum?

In the memoirs of Zhuikov, commander of the 8th Guard Army, that included the 47th Guard Rifle Division directly opposite Müncheberg, I find (translated from Russian): "On that day (18 April 1945) the enemy deployed two fresh divisions 'Kurmark' and 'Müncheberg'..." This is strange, because from most other literature I understood that Müncheberg saw 'continuous action' from the onset of the attack on 16 April.

The lines of advance he describes seem accurate: 17 April, Alt Rosenthal-Görlsdorf-Weinbergssee; 18 April, Trebnitz-Jahnsfelde; 19 April (first half) Dahmsdorf-Müncheberg-Belendorf and (second half) Garzin-Kienbaum-Jänickendorf. That more or less fits the retreat of Müncheberg Division.

source: http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/chuykov_vi4/16.html

Dirk Jan

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Re: Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

Post by Berndkarl » 13 Oct 2009 08:08

Good Morning,
I am new but i think I can supply usefull info about Panzerdivision Müncheberg, especially to the German speaking members. My father Walter Kroemer, was Mummert's Ordonanzoffizier. You find his Tagebucheintragungen in the following books: Jürgen Thorwald "Das Ende an der Elbe" (Kroemer-Pecoroni) as well as in Tony Le Tessier's book "Der Kampf um Berlin 1945" (Kroemer); and Tony Le Tessiers book "Durchbruch an der Oder" Kroemer; Kroemer und Zobel). The complete "Berlin part" of his Tagebuch was published in "Kameraden" Nr. 629, April 2006.
My father intended writing a book about the Panzerdivision Müncheberg, he had just started, when he passed away in 2002. All his collected material was sent in 11 removal-cartons to the Archive in Freiburg. I understand that a historian is making use of his material and a book should be published in the near future.
Thank you for your interest.
Bernd Kroemer

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Daniel L
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Re: Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

Post by Daniel L » 18 Apr 2010 17:11

Interesting information Dirk Jan, unfortunately I haven't noticed it until now.

Bernd, this sounds interesting! I am sorry to hear that your father passed away and that he wasn't able to finish his memoirs. He must have had a very good insight and knowledge about the division. It would be great to read to article in Kameraden, would it perhaps be possible for you to scan the article and upload it here?

I found this picture today. I am however not sure if the description which says that they belong to Panzerdivision Müncheberg is accurate. But it is thought-intriguing.

Image

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Werter
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Re: search and you will find :-)

Post by Werter » 05 Aug 2010 11:46

Daniel L wrote:A Muncheberg officer made an entry into the record.

The German Officer Recorded:

[The dead are lying all over the bridge, and the wounded, with no one to pick them up. Civilians are trying to cross; they are shot down in rows. Our last armored cars are forcing their way across the bridge through piles of twisted human bodies. The bridge is flooded with blood. The terrible slaughter would not end. The rear guard falls apart. The command crumbles. Our losses are heavy.]

The two divisions did make it across the bridge. The Muncheberg officer made a final entry on May 4, 1945.

The German Officer Recorded:

[ Behind us, Berlin in flames. Russian tanks all around us, and the incessant clatter of machine guns. We meet columns of refugees drifting about lost. They weep and ask for help. We are at the end ourselves. The unit breaks up. We try to go on in small groups.]
How can I find a full version of memories of this officer?

Anybody can scan and put here a chapter from the Le Tissier’s book “With Our Backs to Berlin.”, which was written by Horst Zobel?
Regards,
Ivan

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Werter
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Re: Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

Post by Werter » 05 Aug 2010 14:59

PzD "Müncheberg" battle strength 14/04/1945:

Battalions: 5
Combatant Strength: 6000
Mortals: 55
Guns: 78
Armored Strength: 49 (tanks + stugs)

Quoted from "Operation Berlin's 1945" The General military and scientific department of the General Staff of the Soviet Army under the editorship of Colonel-General Zamyatin, NM. The secrecy lifted in 1965.
Regards,
Ivan

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Werter
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Re: Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

Post by Werter » 24 Sep 2010 22:11

Image

Image

Image

Guys, from what book these scans? I found them at a Chinese forum...
Regards,
Ivan

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Re: Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 25 Sep 2010 12:54

Thats from Fire Brigades by Kamen Nevenkin - I can't recommend the book highly enough

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Werter
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Re: Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

Post by Werter » 25 Sep 2010 17:32

Bob_Mackenzie wrote:Thats from Fire Brigades by Kamen Nevenkin - I can't recommend the book highly enough
Thanks for your answer, Bob
Can I ask: Why you don't recommend this book? Many mistakes?

Regards, Ivan
Regards,
Ivan

Tom Peters
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Re: Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

Post by Tom Peters » 26 Sep 2010 05:32

Its a figure of speech indicating the book is most excellent.

Mad Dog

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Re: Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 02 Oct 2010 09:26

Sorry for being unclear - Mr Dog is correct the book is *very* good and I recommend it highly

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Re: Let's build Panzer-Division "Müncheberg" !

Post by pcal226 » 08 Feb 2012 19:27

Forgive my ignorance, but where did I./29 Panzer-Regiment come from? Unfortunately I can't read German and all the English sources i've found say the the 29th Panzer-Regiment was attached to the 12th Panzer Division which at the time was surrounded in the Courland Pocket. How did the 29th Regiment (or atleast its I. Battalion) get from Courland to Muncheberg? I can't find any English source explaining how this happened. Thanks for any help.

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