SS-Pz.Aufkl.Abt. 11 'Nordland'

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Blanusa
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SS-Pz.Aufkl.Abt. 11 'Nordland'

Post by Blanusa » 19 Sep 2003 01:38

Hello everybody.

I decided to write a book about this unit. It all started 2000 when I first found out that there where swedes fighting in german units. After some more reading in to it this particular unit cought my interest because there were so many nations represented there. So here I am now. I started the serious research in march this year.
I have been reading and searching the forum for some time now. And although there is a lot of interesting and useful infortmation I have not yet found a topic that deals with this unit in particular.

I'll try to write a unit history based on the information that I have and post it up here. But for now here is a little info.

On 28 july 1943 a SS-Kradschützen-Regiment, along with other units for 'Nordland'-division, was organized in Grafenwöhr. By august this unit got reorganized as SS-Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 11. The division got most of it's soldiers from already existing ersatz-units.
In september the abteilung was transferred to Sisak, Croatia where they would conduct anti-partisan actions and further training. 8 december the 2.kompanie is the last one from the abteilung to leave Agram, Croatia and head towards the Leningrad front. On 10 december they whole division takes up positions along the frontline and on the 13 december the III.(Germanisches) SS-Panzer-Korps take over the responsibility for thier section of the front.

Structure and brief history: http://www.feldgrau.com/sweden.html

I am most helpful for any contiburtuion and information that you will share. And If you have any questions I'll try my best to answer them.


The referenses I have used so far:

'Ragnarök: Twillight of the Gods' - Torulf Hillblad & Erik Wallin (swedish edition 2000)
'Tragediy of the Faithful' - Wilhelm Tieke (english)
'Svenskarna som stred för Hitler' - Bosse Schön (swedish)
'Berlin the Downfall 1945' - Antony Beevor (swedish)

http://www.feldgrau.com
http://www.skalman.nu
http://www.wssob.com
+ various other sources on the internet.

/Predrag

Timo
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Post by Timo » 19 Sep 2003 05:53

A very interesting topic, I wish you the best of luck with your research.

My 2 cents of advise:

- First of all, go find those who were there and talk to them because it will be to late in only a few years,
- See if you can find any input from people like Mirko Bayerl and Martin Mansson, who both have great knowledge on this topic,
- Visit the BA-MA in Freiburg after having checked if they keep any Kriegstagebücher or other files on this unit,
- Check John Moores "Führerliste der Waffen-SS" for detailed info on it's CO's and award winners,
- I see you already have the primary books about this topic, spell every word written about it and check and double check for truth and accuracy (preferably by Q and A letters to veterans and experts)

Hope this helps,
Timo

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Georg_S
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Post by Georg_S » 19 Sep 2003 07:35

Hello NMY!

It allready exist a book about SS-Pz.A.A.11 "Nordland", its written by the Kameradschaft AA 11, and Herbert Poller (+). Unfortunately the book is not public and very hard to find.

Regards,

Georg

Tolga Alkan
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Post by Tolga Alkan » 19 Sep 2003 08:45

Hello and good lucks on your research,
I do have some questions in my mind about this unit and its split battle with sch.SS-Pz.Abt.503 and the award winners.I will send them through this week.

Best Regards,
Tolga

Rob - wssob2
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book on 11th SS recon battalion

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 19 Sep 2003 15:13

Hi NMY - good luck on your research! I have 2 suggestions for you as well:

1) Research books written from the USSR perspective & Red Army primary source documents, because to research and presesnt a historically accurate account of a battle or campaign it's important to understand what the "other side" did and was thinking.

2) Spend a lot of time researching the composition, operational role and tactical capabilities of the W-SS panzer recon units. The more I research the W-SS panzer divisions, the more I appreciate the fact that the recon units frequently played a decisive role in both offensive and defensive operations. Explaining the reasons why is probably worth a chapter in your book. BTW Timo is a expert on this subject.

- Rob

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Post by Threepwood » 19 Sep 2003 18:26

Try to get in touch with some of the vets..?
Last edited by Threepwood on 08 Apr 2005 18:52, edited 2 times in total.

Threepwood
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Post by Threepwood » 19 Sep 2003 18:31

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Last edited by Threepwood on 08 Apr 2005 18:52, edited 1 time in total.

Blanusa
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Post by Blanusa » 25 Sep 2003 16:24

Hello everybody.

Georg I know about the book and also that it is extremly hard to find. Some more research revealed that should I get my hands on a copy it would cost me alot.
I know that I do have to get in touch with the veterans. Although I have no idea how and where to get in touch with them. Any tips on how would be greatly apreciated.
I kind of don't have any money to go to Freiburg right now or in the near future and my german skills are mediocre. Only a miracle would get me there :wink:. So I was hoping that someone might know something and share it, but I guess I'll have to wait until I can afford the trip.

I also noticed that my first post was kind of fuzzy. I meant to say that I would be greatful for any info not helpful :) But of course should anyone needs info I will be helpful :)

/Predrag

Timo
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Post by Timo » 25 Sep 2003 18:36

nmy wrote:I know that I do have to get in touch with the veterans. Although I have no idea how and where to get in touch with them. Any tips on how would be greatly apreciated.

...Yes, that;s why I advised to contact Mirko and Martin. Both might be able to help you.

Larso
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Post by Larso » 28 Sep 2003 11:21

As an avid military book reader I always rate a book on how good the veterans memiors are. For this reason Max Hastings' Overlord' is my favourite. However it's not easy to get these. I was looking at writing a battalion history last year. I approached the two main associations, containing some 20 veterans, and only 2 or 3 were interested. Now there would have been others about but it wasn't sufficient from my point of view. I'm thinking that your task would be tougher again, 'my' vets were highly regarded as defenders of Australia and they were prominent in the community. I suspect yours have been less appreciated and they may well be quite shy even today as a result. Many of our Vietnam veterans were like this for a long time. It's a clique, but you need to gain their trust, which is easier said than done. I used to go around for tea and just chat about general things. That said, good luck, it's a story I'd like to read. I wonder if a few Russian vets might be able to contribute as well? Also, vets children can sometimes have a lot to offer.

Timo
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Post by Timo » 28 Sep 2003 19:51

Larso wrote:As an avid military book reader I always rate a book on how good the veterans memiors are.

...True but keep in mind that there's often a big difference between their recollections and the actual events. This is mainly caused by high age, the sixty years since the events took place and their talks with fellow veterans during yearly meetings (they mix up eachothers stories).

Larso
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Post by Larso » 29 Sep 2003 09:13

Yes this is true. A few times I was told things that I knew the vet had got confused. Indeed it almost seemed like they were quoting from a history book. A good friend of mine just wrote a book about his college's 'old boys' in the various wars. Some were very keen to help but could remember very little. One, who had been a doctor in Tobruk had seen numerous stuka attacks during the seige. Yet, try as he might, he could describe them only as 'terrible'. That said, you can get men in their mid 80s who are still very sharp. Three years ago I accompanied my mother to a retirement home function, I found myself next to a guy who'd been in one of the Latvian or Litheranian divisions (he didn't mention it was the SS but I knew). His memory was superb!!!

Oh and what I'd meant to say all along - don't mess about with taking hand written notes in an interview, always take a tape recorder.

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Post by Blanusa » 03 May 2004 04:29

Hello

Decided to post a list that is far from complete. Hope that someone can help me to correct and fill it out.

SS-Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 11 (Fomed from SS-Kradsch.Rgt.)
Commander: SS-Sturmbannführer Rudolf Saalbah (?.05.1943-02.05.1945) (MIA)

1./SS-Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 11
SS-Untersturmführer Siegfried Lorenz (?.05.1943-02.10.1944)
SS-Oberscharführer Josef Weber (02.10.1944-?)
SS-Oberscharführer Helmut Seidel (?-08.03.1945)
SS-Untersturmführer Siegfried Lorenz (08.03.1945-02.05.1945)

2./SS-Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 11
SS-Obersturmführer Heinrich Heckmüller (?.05.1943-?)
SS-Obersturmführer Mogens Schwarz (?-?)
SS-Obersturmführer Heinz Stamm (?-10.03.1945)

3./SS-Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 11
SS-Untersturmführer Walter Kaiser (?.05.1943-19.04.1944) (KIA)
SS-Obersturmführer Hans-Gösta Pehrsson (19.04.1944-?.07.1944)
SS-Obersturmführer Hermann Ahrens (?.07.1944-20.07.1944) KIA
SS-Obersturmführer Hans-Gösta Pehrsson (20.07.1944-15.04.1945)
SS-? Kaj Feilberg (15.04.1945-25.04.1945)
SS-Hauptsturmführer Hans-Gösta Pehrsson (25.04.1945-02.05.1945)

4./SS-Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 11
SS-Hauptsturmführer Johannes Max Schaarschmidt (?.05.1943-24.01.1944) (WIA)
SS-Obersturmführer Heinz Viehmann (24.01.1944-?)
SS-Obersturmführer Josef Schirmer (?-28.10.1944) (WIA)
SS-Unterscharführer ? Stuhn (28.10.1944-29.10.1944) (KIA)
SS-Obersturmführer Josef "Sepp" Schirmer (?.02.1945-?.?.1945)
SS-Obersturmführer Georg Erichsen (?.?.1945-23.01.1945) (KIA)
SS-Untersturmführer Mogens Schwarz (23.01.1945-?.?.1945)

5./SS-Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 11
SS-Haupsturmführer Hans Schmidt(?.05.1943-24.01.1944) (WIA)
SS-Untersturmführer ? Schirmer (24.01.1944-26.01.1944)
SS-Untersturmführer Georg Langendorf (26.01.1944 - 19.04.1945) (WIA)
SS-Untersturmführer Hans Marchl (19.04.1945-19.04.1945) (KIA)
SS-Untersturmführer Walter Schwarck (19.04.1945-02.05.1945)


Also I got this from Wilhelm Tiekes "Tragedy of the Faithful" which is a list of acting commanders for short periods of time in 3./SS-Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 11. But I have not found any further information:

SS-Obersturmführer Walther Buchholz
SS-Untersturmführer Rune Ahlgren
SS-Untersturmführer Heino Meyer
SS-Untersturmführer Gunnar Eklöf
SS-Untersturmführer ? Höök


Forgot to say that this is a list of abteilung and kompanie commanders, in case you were wondering.

Updated the list.
Updated the list again. (05.05.2004)
Last edited by Blanusa on 09 May 2004 17:19, edited 4 times in total.

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Georg_S
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Post by Georg_S » 03 May 2004 05:39

hello,

I have to make some corrections on your list of SS-Pz AA.11
stellungsbesetzung.
By the time of the Abteilung was raised in Grafenwöhr May 1943
the Abteilung looked as follow:
Abt Komm. SS-Ostuf Rudolf Saalbach (was in June 43 promoted to
SS-Hstuf).
1.Kp. SS-Ostuf Siegfried Lorenz (From 43 to 2.5.45, 11 years in Russia)
2.Kp. SS-Ostuf Heinrich Heckmüller
3.Kp. SS-Ostuf Walter Kaiser (KIA)
4.Kp. SS-Ostuf Max Scharschmidt
5.Kp. SS-Ostuf Hans Schmidt


After Kaiser (Chef 3 Kp. was KIA) Pehrsson took over, after Hans-Gösta
Georg (?) Ahrens become Chef (KIA 20.7.44). Then Pehrsson came
back and was it chef until the fighting of Berlin.

In your list you have written that the last Chef of 5.Kp was named Mogens Schwarck, I am pretty sure that his first name wasn´t Mogens, it´s
possibly a confusion between Mogens Schwarz (Dane) in the 4.Kp.
I can´t remember his name but I check for it for you. But Schwarck is right.

/Georg
Last edited by Georg on 03 May 2004 18:31, edited 1 time in total.

Blanusa
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Post by Blanusa » 03 May 2004 06:45

Thank you Georg, great info. :)

Do you, or anyone else, have any more info as to the creation of the abteilung. Here is what i have:

SS-Kradschützen-Regiment (possibly existed for a time but had disappeared by 28 June 1943)
SS-Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 11 (formed from SS-Kradschützen-Regiment and contained a company of Swedes)

Source:
http://www.waffen-ss.com/organization/d ... ision.html
(can't access any more, has become "member area", but have the page saved on my computer)

...and a Kradschützen-Regiment (later reorganized as SS-Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 11 in August 1943)...

Source:
Tragedy of the Faithful. A history of the III. (germanisches) SS-Panzer-Korps. (p. 4)
Wilhelm Tieke
ISBN 0-921911-61-4


All the other sources only say summer/mid 1943 and are not very helpfull.

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