Panzerverband 700

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Abel Ravasz
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Panzerverband 700

Post by Abel Ravasz » 04 Nov 2003 22:21

I am doing a research of this unit. This is what I have so far:


Panzerverband 700

Formed 28/10/42 with three light companies of Pz 38(t) of the 22. Panzer Division. Soon it was reconstructed into 4 medium companies. Its theoretical strenght was 60 panzers + 40 StuG (!), but it never quite reached these numbers. Transferred to 2. Army late November 1942. Was a direct attachment to the army until 26/12/42 when transferred to 2. Hungarian army. The Hungarians wanted to employ it in the sector of the III. (hu) Corps but it eventually became an army reserve. 1/1/43 deployed west of the river Devica as part of the freshly formed Cramer Corps. 3/1 authorized strenght of 27 Pz 38t and 9 StuG. 4/1 deployed at Glukhovka (15 kms NW of Alexeyevka), 6/1 redeployed to a position 18 kms NE of Alexeyevka. 11/1 transferred to IV. Corps (excluding its armoured car company with 7.5 guns), had to move through Ostrogozhsk to Soldatskoje at 04.00 next day. 12/1 (the start of the Russian offensive against the Hungarian army) given orders to move east of Boldirevka to meet the Russian spearhead (150. armoured brigade of 40. army). It had to begin counterattacking the next day in conjunction with the units of 7. (hu) light division, the 242. StuG-Abteilung and two Flak-Abteilungen (272. and 291.). By the end of the day unit reached the frontline of the 7. light division, but it was too late to stop the collapse of this unit. 13/1 the unit started the counterattack too late (mainly because of technical problems), thus it failed. The vanguard clashed with the 150. armoured brigade on a ridge N of Boldirevka. After the loss of 14 tanks and 200 men (mainly POWs), the remnants (4 Pz + 3 StuG) retreated to Jablonchy. At 18.00 the unit was transferred to the cut-off III. Corps. Afterwards the unit fought in the ranks of the Korpsgruppe Siebert, until it was dissolved 1/2/43. Its remnants came to the 35. Panzer regiment of the 4. Panzer-Division.

This is what I have so far. Any additional info would be welcome (commander of the unit, TO&E etc etc).

Thanks,
best,

Abel

Jan-Hendrik
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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 29 May 2006 06:40

Dear Abel , this might help you :

http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic ... erband+700

Jan-Hendrik

ATH
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Re: Panzerverband 700

Post by ATH » 09 Oct 2011 00:10

Hi,
I've got a couple question regarding this unit.
While researching for Gruppe Selle composition, I came across a unit (which acted as Abteilungs-HQ - as soon as 4.12.42 - and probably with an attached company) referred to as Abschnitt von Buddenbrock (102 men on 14.12.42). It is mentioned that its members were taken from Panzer Verband 700. Now I've read the thread on the Feldgrau forum (http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=8108) and there are some information related to the area of the Lower Chir: material from 14.Pz.Div to Pz.Verband-700 sent by train at the station in Surovikino on 15.11.42 for example, or that some of the personnel taken to form the unit were from 14.- 16.- and 24.Pz.Div which would most probably have to at least pass through the area. But it's a document dated 16.10.42...

So my questions are:

-Who is this commander von Buddenbrock? What was he supposed to be in Pz.-Verband 700? and from which unit is he from (originally)?
-How come a part of Panzer-Verband 700 finds itself in the Lower Chir area in mid-december? Could it be a missing link with the unit being attached to 16.I.D(mot)?

And to bump an old question :
Still, one question remains unsolved, even untouched. As we know, the PzVb had some StuGs in its ranks. Any idea about where these StuGs came from?
Thank you for any help!
GG

Jan-Hendrik
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Re: Panzerverband 700

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 09 Oct 2011 07:37


ATH
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Re: Panzerverband 700

Post by ATH » 13 Feb 2013 22:55

Here is the document I was talking about. It is dated 14.12.42. I couldn't find the answer in your link J-H.
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John Hilly
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Re: Panzerverband 700

Post by John Hilly » 14 Feb 2013 20:59

ATH wrote:While researching for Gruppe Selle composition, I came across a unit (which acted as Abteilungs-HQ - as soon as 4.12.42 - and probably with an attached company) referred to as Abschnitt von Buddenbrock (102 men on 14.12.42). It is mentioned that its members were taken from Panzer Verband 700.
Actually 103 men. One officer from 2./ N. Btl. 543 is the 103rd.

Regards,
J-P :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

Abel Ravasz
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Re: Panzerverband 700

Post by Abel Ravasz » 16 Feb 2013 16:54

Gentlemen,

this unit just doesn't cease to amaze, does it?

While it is not impossible parts of the PzVbd 700 were sent to the Chir area in December, I find it more plausible that these were soldiers that were earmarked for the PzVbd but never quite made it to the Voronezh area (2. Armee), where the unit was concentrated. Bear in mind that the PzVbd 700 never actually quite reached its intended size or strength.

Our former research suggested that at least parts of the unit's equipment was transferred to them from the 22. PzD, which was at the time active on the Chir. Some of its personnel were from the 14. PzD and 24. PzD, which also did have some remnants outside of the Stalingrad pocket and on the Chir. There are elements of these units, plus the 16. PzD, also present in your document. This theory is somewhat more plausible to me than having the 2. Armee send to the Chir a hundred highly specialized Panzer soldiers as infantry, when the army itself was composed mainly of regular infantry units.

As for Buddenbrock, I formerly thought that the unit had something to do with Oberst Freiherr von Buddenbrock, Artillery Regiment 162 (62. ID), who was at the Chir at the time. But neither the size nor the composition are in line with the colonel's background, so it has to be another guy. BTW Nachschub-Btl 543 was a 6. Armee organic unit, so no help there.

Also I would fully forget about the 16. ID (mot.) parts, since it was planned to use the PzVbd 700 as a reinforcement of the Elista grouping, of which the 16. ID was the backbone, but this never came to pass because of the Soviet counteroffensive and therefore there was almost surely no direct contact between these two units.

Just my 2 cents, sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

a.

ATH
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Re: Panzerverband 700

Post by ATH » 17 Feb 2013 13:21

Abel Ravasz wrote:Gentlemen,

this unit just doesn't cease to amaze, does it?

While it is not impossible parts of the PzVbd 700 were sent to the Chir area in December, I find it more plausible that these were soldiers that were earmarked for the PzVbd but never quite made it to the Voronezh area (2. Armee), where the unit was concentrated. Bear in mind that the PzVbd 700 never actually quite reached its intended size or strength.

Our former research suggested that at least parts of the unit's equipment was transferred to them from the 22. PzD, which was at the time active on the Chir. Some of its personnel were from the 14. PzD and 24. PzD, which also did have some remnants outside of the Stalingrad pocket and on the Chir. There are elements of these units, plus the 16. PzD, also present in your document. This theory is somewhat more plausible to me than having the 2. Armee send to the Chir a hundred highly specialized Panzer soldiers as infantry, when the army itself was composed mainly of regular infantry units.
My theory is that, as there were actually panzers in Gruppe Selle, but not in a defined panzer unit, this is the key to where these panzers come from. We know about 301.Pz.Abt. But during the fight on the Chir on 7.12.42, it was actually subordinated to 336.I.D. and we know exactely where they were and what they did.

However, there were still a dozen additional tanks in Gruppe Selle, but we don't know where they are from and this is where Pz.Vb.700 might be filing a gap. From Yuri's documents, some of the tankists manning these (tanks) were members of 376 Pz.Jg.Abt. (which would mean they were StuG, or at least not panzers), and from numerous documents, they might have come from the 168 field workshop (168.Inst.Komp.). The 6 Army repair shops were in the Tormosin area (as I guess was N.Btl.543) , so that actually makes sense. The germans don't consider their StuG units as panzers, but the Soviets more often then not, counted them as so.

So maybe the StuG destined for PzVd 700 were supposed to be coming from the repair shops in the Tormosin area, but never reached their destination, caught in the developing situation along the lower Chir.

As for Buddenbrock, I formerly thought that the unit had something to do with Oberst Freiherr von Buddenbrock, Artillery Regiment 162 (62. ID), who was at the Chir at the time. But neither the size nor the composition are in line with the colonel's background, so it has to be another guy. BTW Nachschub-Btl 543 was a 6. Armee organic unit, so no help there.
I came to the same conclusion.
Also I would fully forget about the 16. ID (mot.) parts, since it was planned to use the PzVbd 700 as a reinforcement of the Elista grouping, of which the 16. ID was the backbone, but this never came to pass because of the Soviet counteroffensive and therefore there was almost surely no direct contact between these two units.

Just my 2 cents, sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

a.
No no, it was helpful. You've got a way of presenting differing possibilities in a way that we can make sense of the situation.

Abel Ravasz
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Re: Panzerverband 700

Post by Abel Ravasz » 17 Feb 2013 18:05

Interesting idea about those StuGs. We do however know that on 3/1/1943 the PzVbd had the strength of 27 Panzers and 9 StuGs (deployed at Korps Cramer), which would suggest that at least a part of its organic StuG components did reach the assembly area of the unit. It is of course still possible that there were other StuGs earmarked for the unit that never quite left the Chir area.

It would be interesting to know the organic attachment of this Inst.Kp. 168, but so far I haven't been able to locate it. The numbering would suggest that it was part of the 68. ID. However that unit was deployed with the 2. Armee and did not have tank units. Corps-level units were typically numbered 4xx, but it also might have also been a 6. Armee direct attachment. The PzJgAbt 376 is of course clearly a 376. ID unit.

ATH
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Re: Panzerverband 700

Post by ATH » 19 Feb 2013 12:19


Jan-Hendrik
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Re: Panzerverband 700

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 18 Nov 2022 12:03

This document states that they had 17 combat ready 38t on 11.1.2.42.

Jan-Hendrik

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