Seeking info about SS-Fallschirmjäger-Bataillon 500.

[DamirGS]

We visited Drvar on 20.04.

Here are some pictures.

Drvar:



Tito’s cave:











Partisan monument is devastated.





Sobica Cemetery





Same wall as on drvar3 picture few posts above.

[wotan3]

seems to be abit past restoring

[Ivan Ž.]

June 1944: June 1: unit strength: 300; sent to Petrovac, then Ljubljana for rest & refitting.

Dear Rob (and everyone else),

Were the remnants of the battalion sent to Petrovac on June 1, or earlier? According to C. D. Melson ("Operation Knight's Move"), they moved to Petrovac on May 29. If that was the case (May 29), is it known whether any SS paratroopers were left behind in Drvar until June 1 (or longer)?

Thanks very much in advance,
Ivan

[kfbr392]

does anyone have more data on the KStN/ OOB/ Gliederung on the eve of Rösselsprung?

the OOB I found are only from web articles, far removed from original documents:

At this time the composition of the 1000 man SS-Parachute battalion was:

Btl.Stab.Komp (267 men):
1x -Nachrichtenzug
1x -Aufklärungs mannschaft
1x -Kradmelder abteilung
1x -Fallschirm-wartenzug

1.Fallschirm-Schützen-Kompanie
3 Züge & Nachrichten mannschaft
each of 3x Schützen mannschaften, and
1x Mörser mannschaft

2.Fallschirm-Schützen-Kompanie as 1.Fallschirm-Schützen-Kompanie

3.Fallschirm-Schützen-Kompanie as 1.Fallschirm-Schützen-Kompanie

4.Fallschirm-(schwer-waffen)-Kompanie
1x MG (h.) zug (MG.42)
1x Flammenwerfer-zug (3 x flamethrowers)
1x Mörserzug (12cm.)
1x Panzerjägerzug (anti-tank) = 4 x LG 40/75 (recoiless para/mtn.gun)

Mobility inlcuded 100 Kraftwagen & 30 Kradfahr

source: http://www.feldgrau.com/fall500.html


and:

Stabs-Kompanie (267)
-Nachrichtenzug
-Feindaufklärungsmannschaft
-Kradmelderabteilung
-Fallschirm-Wartungszug
-SS-Juristen zuständig für die Überwachung der Disziplinarfälle
1. Fallschirm-Schützen-Kompanie
2. Fallschirm-Schützen-Kompanie
3. Fallschirm-Schützen-Kompanie
4. Fallschirm-(schwere Waffen)-Kompanie
Feldausbildungs-Kompanie

100 Kraftwagen und 30 Kradfahrzeuge standen dem weitgehend autarken Bataillon zur Verfügung.

source: http://de.metapedia.org/wiki/SS-Fallsch ... on_500/600


and:

-Battalion Staff Company
One supply company
One reporting squad
One signals platoon
One motorcycle dispatch squad
One maintenance platoon
One parachute maintenance platoon
-1st Parachute Rifle Company
Three parachute firle platoons, plus a communications squad
-2nd Parachute Rifle Company
Same as 1st
-3rd Parachute Rifle Company
Same as 1st

Note - Each parachute rifle platoon contained three rifle squads, three light submachine-gun squads, and a mortar squad.

-4th Heavy Weapons Parachute Company
One machine-gun platoon
One mortar platoon
One flamethrower platoon
One antitank platoon

source: /viewtopic.php?t=73324


Who has a KStN-style breakdown on a Gruppe per Gruppe level?

[kfbr392]

From "Kriegsgliederung des Feldheeres Band II Stand Mai 1944":

[kfbr392]

This Gliederung of SS-Fallsch.Jäg.Btl. 500 from May 1944 shows the following:
from top to bottom and right to left (as these Gliederungen need to be read):

- Stab.Fallsch.Jäg.Btl: 3(?) le.MG
- Fallsch.Jäg.Btl:
-- 1.Kp: 20 le.MG, 2 m.GrW *
-- 2.Kp as 1.Kp
-- 3.Kp as 1.Kp
-- 4.(s)Kp: 8 s.MG + 3(?) le.MG, 2 m.GrW, 2 LG 7,5cm **
- Fallsch.Nachr.Zg: 2 le.MG
- Fallsch.???.Zg: 4 le.MG ***
- Fallsch.???.Kp: 4 s.MG + 16 le.MG, 2 m.GrW, 2 LG 7,5cm ****


Strictly my interpretation of the above:
* 3x Fallsch.Jäg.-Zug (each with 3 Gruppen of 2 le.MG each), GrW-Gruppe (2 8cm mortars), Tross (supply echelon, 2 le.MG)
** 2x s.MG-Zug (each with 4 MG 42 on tripod), 1x GrW-Zug (2 8cm mortars, 1 le.MG; this platoon unusually has only one GrW-Gruppe and not the standard 2-3 GrW-Gruppen), 1x Leichtgeschütz-Zug (2 7,5cm recoilless guns, 1 le.MG), Tross (1 le.MG)
*** Little idea what kind of platoon this is. Its position in the Gliederung indicates it is rear echelon.
**** 1x s.MG-Zug (as above), 1x GrW-Zug (as above), 1x Leichtgeschütz-Zug (as above), Tross (2 le.MG), and likely 2x FJ-Zug (this is because there is an excess of 12 le.MG that would otherwise be unexplained).
This company could be the Feldausbildungs-Kompanie mentioned in some of the web sources... the fact that two of its platoons appear to be equipped like a regular FJ platoon (a bunch of le.MG and nothing heavier than that) makes this plausible since it would have been highly unusual to have a regular infantry platoon in a regular heavy weapons company. That and the fact that it is physically far removed from the fighting bataillon in the OOB, and placed behind (to the left) of the rear echelon platoon.


The original Gliederung from May 1944 is thus somewhat different from the web sources posted earlier:
- no Stabs-Kompanie, no Krad-Zug
- no Pionier-Zug, no mention of Flammenwerfer
- Granatwerfer in 4.(s)Kp are not 12cm GrW 42, but medium (= 8cm) GrW. And only 2 GrW, which is the amount usually found in a Gruppe, not the 4-6 GrW constituting a standard Zug. No mention of Kz 8 cm GrW 42, which were designed for airborne use

[kfbr392]

does anyone have the KStN sheets for this bataillon?
I would really appreciate if someone was to share it!

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Guys,

Did the two battalions (500 and 600) conduct any ultimately successful special forces operations against the Allies?#

To what extent did they owe their expertise to the Brandenburgers? I understand that almost all the fluent English speakers used in the Ardennes were former Brandenburgers.

Cheers,

Sid

[kfbr392]

does anyone have the KStN sheets for this bataillon?

[Max104740]

Hi kfbr392,
I have never seen KStN specific for this SS unit, I checked similar units and I found an Army Brandenburgers Fallschirmjäger-Kompanien in WW2 day by day site http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn26211feb44.htm, but it is very different, with 9 LMG, 2 HMG, 2 mortars and one 2cm Flak.
More similar is the Luftwaffe Fallschirmjäger-Kompanien, KStN 8121(L) of May 44, I have never seen this KStN but I found a copy of a forum post that describes it:

The May44 Squad was 10 m
10 men, 2 NCOs, 4 riflemen and 4 LMG numbers. Weapons are shown on a separate section of the table, no clue being given as to who was even intended to carry what. The Platoon had 6 LMGs and 3 sniper rifles, so realistically 2 LMGs and 1 scoped rifle per Squad. After that best guess is at least 2 MPs per Squad (9 in the Pl) and 4 rifles. The two LMG teams would look to have been gunner and asst in each, all with pistols.

Everyone wants to know about FG42 issue, and the table doesn't say a thing other than a note along the lines of 'FG (rifles) will be replaced by rifles and machine pistols dependent upon availability'. I thought I had a full translation somewhere but don't seem to, but that's the gist I think.
Company HQ Section:

Captain/Company Commander (MP40)
Company Sergeant Major (K89 Rifle)
Corporal/Medic on Bicycle (P38 Pistol)
3 x Pvts/Messengers (3 x K89 Rifles)
Pvt/Sniper (K89 Rifle + Scope)
6 x Pvts/Drivers (MP40s)
Vehicles;
Kübelwagen
3 x Motorcycles + Sidecars
2 x 3-ton Trucks

Anti-Tank Troop:
4 x Pvts/Gunners (P38 Pistols)
4 x Pvts/Loaders (MP40s)
4 x Panzerschrecks

Mortar Section:
3 x Mortar Squads Each Containing;
Corporal/Squad Leader (MP40)
Pvt/Gunner (P38 Pistol)
Pvt/Loader (P38 Pistol)
2 x Pvts/Ammo Bearers (K89 Rifles)
8cm GrW 42 Mortar (Kurz)

3 x Rifle Platoons Each Containing;

Platoon HQ Section:
Lieutenant/Platoon Leader (MP40)
Platoon Sergeant (K89 Rifle)
Pvt/Armourer (P38 Pistol)
Pvt/Medic (P38 Pistol)
3 x Pvts/Messengers (K89 Rifles)
2 x Pvts/Drivers (MP40s)
Vehicles;
2 x 3-ton Trucks

3 x Rifle Sections Each Containing;
Sergeant/Section Leader (MP40)
Corporal/Assistant Leader (MP40)
Private (K89 Rifle)
2 x Privates (K89 Rifles + Rifle Grenade Launchers)
Pvt/Sniper (K89 Rifle + Scope)
2 x Pvts/Gunners (P38 Pistols)
2 x Pvts/Loaders (P38 Pistols)
2 x MG34s or MG42s
1 x Kampfpistole

Company Train:
Sergeant Major (MP40)
Sergeant/Pay Clerk (K89 Rifle)
Sergeant/Equipment (MP40)
Sergeant/Armourer (MG34 or MG42 + P38 Pistol)
Pvt/Company Clerk (MG34 or MG42 + P38 Pistol)
Pvt/Shoemaker (K89 Rifle)
Pvt/Tailor (K89 Rifle)
Pvt/Shoemaker (K89 Rifle)
Sergeant/Cook (K89 Rifle)
Pvt/Cook (K89 Rifle)
Pvt/Cook Assistant (K89 Rifle)
Pvt/Motor Mechanic (K89 Rifle)
6 x Pvts/Drivers (K89 Rifles)
Vehicles;
6 x 3-Ton Trucks

Total Strength 171 Officers and Men

Total Weapons:
55 x P38 Pistols
43 x MP40s
73 x K89 Rifles (10 x Sniper Scopes)
9 x Kampfpistole
6 x Rifle Grenade Launchers
20 x MG34s or MG42s
4 x Panzerschrecks
3 x Medium Mortars
I cannot find the post on the forum but someone has this KStN and it gives 20 LMG and three mortars for company, like the companies you are interested in. It seems reasonable that when SS built their airborne unit they started from the Luftwaffe organization.
I hope that this was useful for you
Regards
Max

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Guys,

It is over a year since I asked the following question, without reply, so I thought I would try again:

"Did the two battalions (500 and 600) conduct any ultimately successful special forces operations against the Allies?#

To what extent did they owe their expertise to the Brandenburgers? I understand that almost all the fluent English speakers used in the Ardennes were former Brandenburgers."


Cheers,

Sid

[AdolfDettmer]

Hi Guys,

It is over a year since I asked the following question, without reply, so I thought I would try again:

"Did the two battalions (500 and 600) conduct any ultimately successful special forces operations against the Allies?#

To what extent did they owe their expertise to the Brandenburgers? I understand that almost all the fluent English speakers used in the Ardennes were former Brandenburgers."


Cheers,

Sid

Well I can answer part one, and judging by your record on these forums as being one of the most respectable researchers, give you the answer you’d expect.

No, the SS-Fallschirm units did nothing of any real note, and are only glorified and put on a pedestal by wehraboo posters on reddit.

Yes they existed, yes they saw combat, but to echo your remarks I’ve seen many a time Sid, “their experience mirrored many regular units”.

[kfbr392]

More similar is the Luftwaffe Fallschirmjäger-Kompanien, KStN 8121(L) of May 44, I have never seen this KStN but I found a copy of a forum post that describes it:
[...]
I cannot find the post on the forum but someone has this KStN and it gives 20 LMG and three mortars for company, like the companies you are interested in. It seems reasonable that when SS built their airborne unit they started from the Luftwaffe organization.

thank you. very informative. and good point re the 20 lMGs. though the SS companies had two 81mm GrW and 8121(L) had three.

[CogCalgary]

Hi Guys,

It is over a year since I asked the following question, without reply, so I thought I would try again:

"Did the two battalions (500 and 600) conduct any ultimately successful special forces operations against the Allies?#

To what extent did they owe their expertise to the Brandenburgers? I understand that almost all the fluent English speakers used in the Ardennes were former Brandenburgers."


Cheers,

Sid

Well I can answer part one, and judging by your record on these forums as being one of the most respectable researchers, give you the answer you’d expect.

No, the SS-Fallschirm units did nothing of any real note, and are only glorified and put on a pedestal by wehraboo posters on reddit.

Yes they existed, yes they saw combat, but to echo your remarks I’ve seen many a time Sid, “their experience mirrored many regular units”.

Not exactly in the Balkans They hunted people which included cave work which sometimes included the use of chemical weapons.You wont find evidence of that in your regular research work because of course there was no usage of chemical weapons in ww2 except for an admitted “accident”by the Italians mixing up shells in Yugoslavia

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi ColCalgary,

The Romanians had to work their way through the catacombs of Odessa for years without ever entirely clearing them.

Caves are common natural features. There is one barely 200 yards from where I sit. It seems probable that virtually every army on the offensive in WWII must have had to deal with caves at some stage. I know of none who had specialist caving troops. It was presumably the poor bloody infantry that had to do that everywhere.

Cheers,

Sid.