SS battles

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm and Fallschirmjäger and the other Luftwaffe ground forces. Hosted by Christoph Awender.
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Cammin1
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SS battles

#1

Post by Cammin1 » 17 Apr 2004, 22:44

What battles did the SS come closet to totally dominating the enemy? Where were their greatest "Victorys"? I'm a bit of newbie and my knowledge is mostly of equipment/individual personalities and the like. I'm trying to learn more of specific battles.
Thx

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Marcus
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#2

Post by Marcus » 17 Apr 2004, 23:08

Please keep in mind the difference between the Waffen-SS (the armed parts fighting alongside the regular armed forces) and the SS as a whole, or the discussions will become confusing.

/Marcus


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Hans_Rudel
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Re: SS battles

#3

Post by Hans_Rudel » 17 Apr 2004, 23:11

Cammin1 wrote:What battles did the SS come closet to totally dominating the enemy? Where were their greatest "Victorys"? I'm a bit of newbie and my knowledge is mostly of equipment/individual personalities and the like. I'm trying to learn more of specific battles.
Thx
I would go with Arnhem or Kharkov, although, some of their greatest battles were not victories. A lot of their greatest preformances ended in defeat.

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Benoit Douville
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#4

Post by Benoit Douville » 22 Apr 2004, 03:12

One of their greatest Battle indeed ended in defeat. The Kurland Pocket Battle started in September 1944 and the Waffen-SS Hold the Soviets untill May 1945! What an amazing defensive Battle if you considered that the Waffen-SS were outnumbered about 10-1 against the Red Army.

Regards

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Conacher1941
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#5

Post by Conacher1941 » 22 Apr 2004, 03:21

Ah May 1945, what a great time to be in the Waffen SS.
I feel bad for the 16,17, and 18 year olds who were just newly drafted in to Waffen SS and only partook in maybe one or two acctual battles before surrendering. They could then look forward to being handed over to the Russians for execution based on charges they were of not even distant relation to.

...Conacher

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Conacher1941
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Re: SS battles

#6

Post by Conacher1941 » 22 Apr 2004, 03:23

Hans_Rudel wrote:
Cammin1 wrote:What battles did the SS come closet to totally dominating the enemy? Where were their greatest "Victorys"? I'm a bit of newbie and my knowledge is mostly of equipment/individual personalities and the like. I'm trying to learn more of specific battles.
Thx
I would go with Arnhem or Kharkov, although, some of their greatest battles were not victories. A lot of their greatest preformances ended in defeat.
To which defeats are you referring?

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MAX_theHitMan
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#7

Post by MAX_theHitMan » 22 Apr 2004, 04:29

Benoit Douville ~ Posted
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One of their greatest Battle indeed ended in defeat. The Kurland Pocket Battle started in September 1944 and the Waffen-SS Held the Soviets untill May 1945! What an amazing defensive Battle if you considered that the Waffen-SS were outnumbered about 10-1 against the Red Army.
I have read about that one before too. It must have been a bloody fight `till the end, considering "the end" was really the last few days of the Reich. Both sides fought bravely and with honour, I must add.

Another battle that comes to mind is the Ardennes (Battle of the Bulge) offensive. That was another savage fight in the woods.

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#8

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 22 Apr 2004, 05:02

One of their greatest Battle indeed ended in defeat. The Kurland Pocket Battle started in September 1944 and the Waffen-SS Hold the Soviets untill May 1945! What an amazing defensive Battle if you considered that the Waffen-SS were outnumbered about 10-1 against the Red Army.
A great battle? What are your criteria for that assessment? The German troops were essentially cut off and bottled up, useless in the defense of the Reich. What’s great about that?


Hmmm. “W-SS victories”? It would be probably more accurate to say “what German victories did the W-SS participate in?” since the W-SS fought alongside Heer units and forces from the two branches were often combined. Heer units such as the 506th heavy tank battalion and 191st Artillery Regiment participated at Arnhem as components of W-SS kampfgruppen.

My favorite W-SS victory would be Fritz Klingenberg’s capture of Belgrade on April 11, 1941. Sometimes the best victories are won by speed, surprise and bluff rather than panzer-bashing heavyweight bouts.

Here’s a short list quickly compiled. It’s not complete, and its subjective.

Successful offensive battles/campaigns in which the W-SS played a large part would be the invasion of Greece, the Ulman pocket battles, and of course the recapture of Kharkov.

“Ssuccessful” defensive battles/campaigns campaigns in which the W-SS played a large part would be the winter 1941 battles on the Eastern front, the Demjansk pocket, the Korsun pocket, Narva 1944, Arnhem 1944.

An example of an unsuccessful offensive campaign would perhaps be Kursk, The “Battle of the Bulge” in Dec 1944 and Operation Nordwind in Jan 1945 and the “Spring Awakening” offensive in March 1945.

An example of an unsuccessful defensive campaign would perhaps be 1944 Normandy. (and pretty much the entire eastern front 1944-45, up to and including the Battle of Berlin.)

Examples of barbaric partisan warfare campaigns and/or counterinsurgency suppressions would be the “6 offensives” of the 1941-45 war in Yugoslavia and the defeat of the insurgents in the Warsaw Uprising. Plus of course all of the anti-partisan campaigns behind the lines in the Eastern Front 1942-44.

Examples of disasterous defeats would be Salla 1941, Brody 1944, Falaise 1944, Budapest 1945, Mohacs 1945, Vienna 1945, Berlin 1945.

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#9

Post by Timo » 22 Apr 2004, 08:39

MAX_theHitMan wrote:Another battle that comes to mind is the Ardennes (Battle of the Bulge) offensive. That was another savage fight in the woods.
One of their greatest victories? :?

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Re: SS battles

#10

Post by Hans_Rudel » 22 Apr 2004, 21:24

Conacher1941 wrote:
Hans_Rudel wrote:
Cammin1 wrote:What battles did the SS come closet to totally dominating the enemy? Where were their greatest "Victorys"? I'm a bit of newbie and my knowledge is mostly of equipment/individual personalities and the like. I'm trying to learn more of specific battles.
Thx
I would go with Arnhem or Kharkov, although, some of their greatest battles were not victories. A lot of their greatest preformances ended in defeat.
To which defeats are you referring?
Kursk and defensive battle after Citadel, During Cobra, Normandy in general, During Spring Awakening, Narva, during Wacht Am Rhein, the Korsun pocket, Italy, Vienna, the Caucasus, the Cherkassy Pockets, Warsaw and Poland in general ('Wiking' and 'Totenkopf') and probable many more that I am missing. Oh, and even Berlin, 'Nord' fought pretty damn well there.

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#11

Post by Tom Houlihan » 22 Apr 2004, 21:34

[quote="Rob - WSSOB"]My favorite W-SS victory would be Fritz Klingenberg’s capture of Belgrade on April 11, 1941. Sometimes the best victories are won by speed, surprise and bluff rather than panzer-bashing heavyweight bouts.[quote]

Klingenbergs' performance there was superb, there's no doubt about that!


L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace!!

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Benoit Douville
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#12

Post by Benoit Douville » 23 Apr 2004, 02:17

Rob,

Don't you think the Battle of Kurland was an amazing accomplishment by the Waffen-SS considering the facts that they were completely surrounded by massive Soviet forces and they repulsed a lot of attacks. You can deny it, it was a great defensive Battle by the Waffen-SS.

I also agree that the capture of Belgrade on april 11 1941 was an amazing performance. The Blitzkrieg at it's best.

BTW, too bad your site is down for now.

Regards

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Conacher1941
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#13

Post by Conacher1941 » 23 Apr 2004, 06:51

Benoit Douville wrote:Rob,

Don't you think the Battle of Kurland was an amazing accomplishment by the Waffen-SS considering the facts that they were completely surrounded by massive Soviet forces and they repulsed a lot of attacks. You can deny it, it was a great defensive Battle by the Waffen-SS.

I also agree that the capture of Belgrade on april 11 1941 was an amazing performance. The Blitzkrieg at it's best.

BTW, too bad your site is down for now.

Regards
Yes it was a valiant defense, but not wholly an act of the Waffen SS; it was essentially the entire AG North.

...Conacher

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Conacher1941
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Re: SS battles

#14

Post by Conacher1941 » 23 Apr 2004, 06:52

Hans_Rudel wrote:
Conacher1941 wrote:
Hans_Rudel wrote:
Cammin1 wrote:What battles did the SS come closet to totally dominating the enemy? Where were their greatest "Victorys"? I'm a bit of newbie and my knowledge is mostly of equipment/individual personalities and the like. I'm trying to learn more of specific battles.
Thx
I would go with Arnhem or Kharkov, although, some of their greatest battles were not victories. A lot of their greatest preformances ended in defeat.
To which defeats are you referring?
Kursk and defensive battle after Citadel, During Cobra, Normandy in general, During Spring Awakening, Narva, during Wacht Am Rhein, the Korsun pocket, Italy, Vienna, the Caucasus, the Cherkassy Pockets, Warsaw and Poland in general ('Wiking' and 'Totenkopf') and probable many more that I am missing. Oh, and even Berlin, 'Nord' fought pretty damn well there.
So essentially every defensive undertaking from mid 1943 onward?

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#15

Post by MAX_theHitMan » 23 Apr 2004, 21:50

Timo Worst
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MAX_theHitMan wrote:
Another battle that comes to mind is the Ardennes (Battle of the Bulge) offensive. That was another savage fight in the woods.
One of their greatest victories?
Nope. :( I didn´t say it was a victory.
I just said it was another savage fight in the forests. My history on the Waffen SS is quite limited ( Lack of more history books on my shelf on the subject of the W-SS and my local library doesn´t have much either), but many thanks to @Rob - WSSOB for posting that very informative list of battles.
Thanks big guy :)

Cheers



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