Highest scoring tank ace

[Hardigan]

News about Carius and Knispel !

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 3&start=15

I'm glad he admits it about the 150+ Panzerkills because I wanted to start a thread about it.
The 68 Panzerkills which is mentioned in Günter Wegmann's book 'Die Ritterkreuzträger der Panzertruppe vol.1' can indeed be the total score of Carius.

Postby Dieter Zinke on Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:39 am
Hallo forum,

in the NEW BOOK (BIBLIO)
Günter Wegmann. “Die Ritterkreuzträger der Panzertruppe“, Vol. 1 “Albert - Eysser“, Biblio-Verlag Bissendorf, 2004. 394 pages

Carius is "only" listed with 68 kills !!!

Even 100+ is impossible. Simply check his gunner !
Heinz Kramer who was already his gunner in 1943 and even went on (while Carius was put out of action in July '44) till his death in Jan. '45 was credited with only 50+ Panzerkills !! That would be about 40-50 Panzerkills as gunner of Carius and the rest with another Commander.

Here an overview of the main battles of Carius and 2./s.PzAbt.502 most from 'Tigers in Combat 1' , the kills which are made by Carius alone are underlined. If you take the underlined kills of the main
battles and take what's left for minor battles you can imagine that the outcome could be 68.


PzRgt.21. (June '41 - May '42)
June '41-
May '42 : ?

2./s.PzAbt.502 (April '43 - 24 July '44)
Newel
4 Nov '43 : 10 T-34/76 (Carius)
6 Nov '43 : 3 T-34 (2 Tigers)

Narwa
17 Mar '44 : 13 T-34 , 1 KV-1 , 5 Pak (Carius and Kerscher)
18 Mar '44 : 4 T-34 , 1 T-60 , 5 Pak ?
19 Mar '44 : 8 T-34 , 1 T-60 , 1 Pak
20 Mar '44 : 2 T-34 , 1 Pak
21 Mar '44 : 2 T-34 , 2 Pak
22 Mar '44 : 2 T-34
26 Jun '44 : several Pz and Pak (12 Tigers)

Dunaburg
11 Jul '44 : 10 Pz , 6 Pak (10 Tigers , Eichhorn and Schiller)
22 Jul '44 : 10 JS-II/T-34 (17 JS-II , 6 T-34 , 6 Pak , Carius and Kerscher)
24 Jul '44 : wounded

s.PzJägAbt.512 ( in action from 8 ?March - 15 April '45)
11 April '45 : 15 Pz (Carius)
Mar/April '45 : 5 Pz (Carius)
15 April '45 : surrender



And then the score of Knispel , it's ridiculous of course , if he would have had such a high score he definitely was awarded with the Knight's Cross.

[bruchmuller]

And then the score of Knispel , it's ridiculous of course , if he would have had such a high score he definitely was awarded with the Knight's Cross.

Certainly not ridiculous and the reasons for him not getten the Knights Cross were different and can be found in any
biography of him.
If your score is very high you are an ace. How many exactly is not really very important.

[Hardigan]

in the NEW BOOK (BIBLIO)
Günter Wegmann. “Die Ritterkreuzträger der Panzertruppe“, Vol. 1 “Albert - Eysser“, Biblio-Verlag Bissendorf, 2004. 394 pages

Carius is "only" listed with 68 kills !!!

Another possibility is that he scored 68 Panzerkills in a Panzer and the rest of what he claims (100-110 kills) was in his Jagdtiger.But it stays the same for his official number of Panzerkills in a Panzer though he indeed killed 100-110 panzer then.
It's quite confusing , it's probably the same with Rondorf who's known with 106 kills (in a Panzer) but his total is over 110 kills when you include the ones with his Jagdtiger.

[genstab]

One question- why wasn't Dr. Franz Bäke listed at all on that exhaustive kills list?

[Hardigan]

There are lots of more names missing , as far as I know Bäke had 79 Panzerkills.

[Marcus]

One question- why wasn't Dr. Franz Bäke listed at all on that exhaustive kills list?

Which list? There are several different lists posted in this thread.

/Marcus

[Sleipnir11]

Heinrich Rondorf of 3./s.Pz.Abt. 503 was recorded with 106 kills and ranked #9 overall. Unfortunately his service record is quite incomplete. Does any one happen to have a more detailed bio of him? Wonder if he was a member of the initial 2./s.Pz.Abt. 502 that merged to 503 in Feb 1943.