Highest scoring tank ace

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Wolfkin
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Another list....

Post by Wolfkin » 21 Jul 2002 22:21

...this was posted by Dale on the Feldgrau Forum. It has mostly the same info as the other list but includes the fate of the Ace.

1.Kurt Knispel –168 Kills (sPzAbt. 503)-KIA in the last days of the war- -commanding his own Kingtiger - never awarded the KC he so richly deserved
2.Otto Carius – 150+ Kills (sPzAbt. 502)- Alive and healthy.Finished the war in S.Pz.Jag.Abt.512(?)
3.Hans Bölter-- 139 Kills (sPzAbt. 502)-survived the war - deceased
4.Michael Wittman – 138 Kills (sS.S.PzAbt. 101 Liebstandarte)
5.Hans Sandrock – 123 Kills (assorted AFV last unit HJ ) - survived the war - deceased
6.Paul Egger – 113 Kills (Das Reich)- alive and well
7.Arno Giesen – 111 Kills (Das Reich)
8.Oberfahnrich Rondorf—106 kills (sPzAbt. 503)- KIA last month of the war
9.Feldwebel Gärtner – 103 Kills (sPzAbt. 503)- KIA last month of the war
10.Karl Körner – 100+ Kills (sS.S.PzAbt. 503)- survived / deceased
11.Albert Kerscher – 100+ Kills (sPzAbt. 502)- alive and well
12.Obersturmfuhrer Helmut Wendorff—84 Kills (sS.S.Pz Abt.101, Liebstandarte)
13.Oberscharfuhrer Ernst Barkmann—82+ Kills (Das Reich)- alive and well
14. Will Fey - 80 + kills (s.SS-Pz.Abt.102/502) - survived /had a stroke recently
15.Eric Litztke—76 Kills (sPzAbt. 509)- survived the war / deceased
16.Hermann Bix – 75+ Kills (4th Panzer Division)- survived / deceased
17.ZugFuhrer Hans Strippel – 70 Kills (4. / II/ PzAbt. 1, 1st Pz. Division)- survived / deceased
18.Emil Seibold – 69 Kills (Das Reich)- survived / deceased
19.Wilhelm Knauth—68 Kills (sPzAbt. 505)- survived / ?
20.Karl Bromann – 66 Kills (sS.S.PzAbt. 503)- alive and well
21.Oberwachtmesiter Hugo Primozic—68 Kills (StuG Abt. 667)- survived / deceased
22.Sepp Brandner – 61 Kills (StuG Brigade 912)- survived / deceased
23.Oberleutnant Hans-Bobo von Rohr – 58 Kills (25 Pz. Abt., 7th Pz. Division)
24.Hauptman Richard Engelmann—54 Kills (StuG Abt. 912)
25.Leutnant Josef Dallmeier—50 Kills (either Fhr. PzJager Kp.1183 attached to 6th Volksgrenadier Division)
26.Walter Feibig—50 Kills
27.Heinz Kramer – 50+ Kills (sPzAbt. 502)- Carius' gunner, KIA end of war
28.Alfredo Carpaneto – 50+ Kills (sPzAbt. 502)- KIA end of war
29.Oberleutnant Mausberg – 50+ Kills - survived / ?
30. Leutnant Horst Krönke - about 50 kills (s.Pz.Abt. 503 & 505)
31.Oberscharfuhrer Jurgen Brandt—47 Kills (sS.S.Abt. 101)
32.Leutnant Heinz Deutsch – 44 Kills (Fsch. StuG Brigade 12)
33.Oberwachtmeister Fritz Amling—42+ Kills (in 48 Hrs. with StuG Brigade 202)
34.Oberwachtmeister Heinz Scharf—40+ Kills (StuG Brigade 202)
35.Leutnant Walter Oberloskamp – 40+ Kills (StuG Brigade 667)
36. Franz Riedel - 40 kills (Frundsberg)- survived / deceased
37.Leutnant Fredrich (?) Tadje—39 Kills (StuG Abt. 190)
38.Obersharfurhrer Rudolf Roy—36 Kills (JP-IV, 12 S.S. PanzerJager Abt. HJ)
39.Wachtmeister Gottwald Stier—30+ Kills (StuG Brigade 667)
40.Wachtmeister Josef Trager – 30+ Kills (StuG Brigade 667)
41.Oberwachtmeister Richard Schram—30 Kills (StuG Brigade 202)
42.Oberwachtmeister Karl Pfreundtner—30 Kills (StuG Abt. 244)
43. Oberleutnant Richard Freiherr von Rosen - about 30 kills (s.Pz.Abt.503)- survived
44. Unteroffizier Martin Burmester - 30 kills (s.Pz.Abt. 503)-
45.Oberwachtmeister Banze – 24 Kills (13 on one day StuG Abt. 244)
46.Hauptman Felix Adamowitsch –23 Kills (in an 8 day period, StuG Abt. 244)
47.Leutnant Eugen Metzger—23 Kills (StuG Abt. 203)
48.Hauptmann Rade –23 Kills (StuG Abt. 244)
49.Leutnant Heinrich Teriete – 22 Kills (in one engagement, sPzJgAbt. 653)
50.Unterscharfuhrer Franz Staudegger—22+ Kills (sS.S.Pz Abt. 101)
51.Leutnant (Res.) Franz Kretshmer – 21 Kills (sPzJgAbt. 653)
52.Unteroffizier Horst Naumann—21 Kills (StuG Abt. 184)- survived / ?
53.Oberleutnant Klaus Wagner – 18 Kills (in two days, StuG Abt. 667)
54.Leutnant Hermann Feldheim—16 Kills (sPzJgAbt. 654)
55.Unteroffizier Heinrich Engel –15 Kills (StuG Abt. 259) - survived / ?

Cheers,

Wolfkin

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Wolfkin
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Post by Wolfkin » 21 Jul 2002 22:29

Homer Martin,

What different numbers have you seen for these Aces? I am interested. Could you post them?

I know David C.Clarke, Ron Klages, Erich Brown and others from many other Forums. Like me, they are very thorough in their research and would not intentionally post inaccurate information.

I have actually seen Otto Carius' kill score estimated at 200 kills. But, most people use 150+ because I guess the other kills can not be verified. So, Otto Carius could very well be the highest scoring Panzer Ace. I have always seen the number 168 for Kurt Knispel. I have seen both 139 and 144 for Hans Boelter. I have always seen 138 for Michael Wittmann.

I am always looking for new info, though! Would you mind posting the different numbers that you speak of?

Cheers,

Wolfkin

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 21 Jul 2002 22:33

I believe it was either a Sherman or a T-34 - it kept driving further away, and the Pa.K. crew kept shelling it - and they just happened to get a lucky hit...

Why are there a question mark by Otto Carius?

Christian

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Wolfkin
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Post by Wolfkin » 21 Jul 2002 22:42

Hey Ferdinand!

Maybe the question mark means they are unsure of Otto Carius' last unit?

Wolfkin

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admfisher
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Aces

Post by admfisher » 21 Jul 2002 23:44

I am taking a look at what my book has on Otto,
On April 26th 44 his Tiger was taken out by a member of his own company. Apparantly he was out ahead of his unit at the time.

On July 22nd 44 he and Kerscher led the 2nd company of there unit into an attack on the Russians. The enemy was the 1st Tank Brigade with JSII tanks. After the battle there were 17 JSII and 5 T34 left dead on the battlefield. So this is done with a understrength company of Tiger I's.

It is a pity but in this book they don't give a list of kills made. As they point out that many kills could not be counted, this and with the destruction of the War Documents at the end of the war some details can never be totally clear.
Such as with Air Aces. We can never me sure of how many planes Hartmann shot down.

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David C. Clarke
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Hi Guys!

Post by David C. Clarke » 22 Jul 2002 00:57

Hi Guys, I'm the first to admit that this list is woefully incomplete. The list was originally compiled a couple of years ago. We used Tigers in Combat, Sturmgeschutze Vor, Uwe Feist's "Panther" and "Tiger" books by Ryton, and a number of other sources including "Panzer Aces" and Agte's "Michael Wittman". To my knowledge no one has ever completed such a list, so we had to rely on published material. Frankly, there were a number of question marks--I left the one on Otto Carius because he's my hero, so don't laugh! An ace like Barkmann has said in interviews that he didn't keep count. Also, fighting in the last year of the war was very chaotic. So, please remeber when you look at this list that neither I nor any other contributor ever considered it dispositive of the Ace's scores or all-inclusive. In fact I can distinctly remember adding Rudolph Roy to the list once I got a copy of 12th S.S.s history. So don't take this list as the gospel, it is very much a "work in progress"--slow progress at that!!! Best Regards, David

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Erich
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Panzer aces.....

Post by Erich » 22 Jul 2002 02:14

As David, I would personally like to see others add to "our" listing which as pointed out is far from complete. I am trying to come up with high scoring Air panzer killers, with Rudel obviously in the lead, but others scored upwards of 100 or more with the Ju 87.

Please help anyway you can and do not deter us with "where's the proof" statements.......

thanks guys ! 8)

E

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Post by Panzermahn » 22 Jul 2002 02:26

Michael Wittmann is still the best coz the way he kicked the fame British 7th Armored Division's butt in Villers Bocage, FRance, 1944

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David C. Clarke
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Carius

Post by David C. Clarke » 22 Jul 2002 02:31

Otto Carius is the best. My recollection is that with one other Tiger he drove into a village where a Russian Heavy Tank Regiment was laagered and shot them all up. These were JS-2s armed with 122mm guns. Let's see Wittman match that!! Cheers, David (P.S., Now this is the type of discussion I love! :D :D :D )

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Erich
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Panzerstaffeln members.....

Post by Erich » 22 Jul 2002 02:45

David :

If you look through the new book on Kurland battles I do believe there are a couple of Fw 190 chaps that scored 15 to 20 tank kills with the R4M rockets.......

I'm checking the panzer staffels of Schlacht 2, 3 and 77 and will get back to you. Sending several notes next week to former Stuka fliers for their imput.

E 8)

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Post by Panzermahn » 22 Jul 2002 02:48

but the action by carius is only documented by the germans themselves right? does the russians confirmed it?


Wittmann's action in Villers Bocage was acknowledged even by the British as well as the Germans...

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Wolfkin
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Post by Wolfkin » 22 Jul 2002 05:49

Hey guys!

I do not think some of these scores are unreasonable. Some people may find them unbelievable, but I don't. You have to remember that most of these Panzer Aces had been fighting for several years. They were experienced men and very lethal with machines that they knew like the back of their hands.

Just like you and me step into our cars everyday and drive to work to our shop, plant or office. Only these guys drove to work in their Panzer-Tiger or Panther or whatever. Their job was a little different and very dangerous. Do that for a few years and I can assure you that you would become very good at it. Just like I can just about do my job with my eyes closed!

It must be hard for some of us to imagine but not for me. I still have friends in the Army that I knew when I was in. I still keep in touch. Some of them are very good at what they do. I'll put it this way, I would not want to be the enemy if some of them were on the battlefield! :)

Cheers,

Wolfkin

Homer martin
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Hi,

Post by Homer martin » 22 Jul 2002 07:13

Hans Bolter 139 kills where and when did his total grow? Page 190 Panzer Aces, number two tank ace behind Wittman.

Kurt Knispel 126 kills as a gunner, only 42 kills as a tank commander.
Ok who gets credit for the tanks the commander or gunner? The German Army only counted the 42 kills as a tank commader, the other 126 kills as a gunner.
Panzer Aces II page 159

I hope these help.

/hgm

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 22 Jul 2002 08:24

He was not a tank ace, but Oberleutnant Günther Viezenz of 10./Grenadier Regiment 7 singlehandedly destoryed 21 tanks.

/Marcus

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Post by Roland » 22 Jul 2002 09:42

panzermahn

Would russians ever confirm german tank kills? In their opinion every russian tanker destroyed 100 Tigers each!!!

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