Panzer Fotos and some questions....

[Christoph Awender]

Hello!

Have some question about these two photos found in a Propaganda book printed 1944.

Interesting shots and I think they must have been published somewhere with more detailed information.
First a nice shot of a Panther with infantry. Note the sniper aiming/observing. Anyone knows the unit and/or other details?


Another shot of a Panzer IV of a series of photos at the breakout of the Kamenez-Podolsk pocket 1944. The turret number 1251 is unusual and I sure someone knows the unit? Other photos show the 4 digit numbering also.


Any details?

Christoph

[Mark V.]

Christoph,
The Panther (625) comes from 6./SS-Pz.Rgt.5 (Hstuf. Reichert). The picture was taken during the fightings at Kowel in 1944.

Mark

[Christoph Awender]

Thanks very much, Mark!

Anyone ideas about the second photo?

Christoph

[Andy H]

Hi Christoph

Wern't 4 figure codes given to Regimental vehicles, especially later in the war when the use of either R or III/II would draw attention to them, so units used false company numbers-in this case 12th Company.

Andy from the Shire

[Christoph Awender]

Hi!

THanks Andy.

The tank is identified as from the 24.Pz.Div.
The four digit numbering was used in Panzerdivisionen with 3 Abteilungen.

Christoph

[Wolfkin]

Totally agree! First photo is a Panther from 5th SS Panzer Division "Wiking". There used to be a site by Bill Murphy of Panzer Colours and he pointed out some new info and updated things from his books. I believe this photo and many others were mentioned. Sadly, Mr. Bill Murphy passed away and his site is no longer available.

Yes, the second photo is a Panzer IV of the 24th Panzer Division. It is from the III Abteilung which had the 9-12 Schwadronen. (24th Panzer still used the "Schwadronen" from it's former Cavalry days.) Bill Murphy mentioned this as well.

However, it cannot be a photo taken from the Kamenets-Podolsk Pocket because the 24th Panzer was not one of the Panzer Divisions trapped in the Pocket.

The Panzer Divisions trapped in the Pocket were:

-1st SS Panzer Division
-1st Panzer Division
-2nd SS Panzer Division
-6th Panzer Division
-7th Panzer Division
-11th Panzer Division
-16th Panzer Division
-17th Panzer Division
-19th Panzer Division

It is most probable that the photo is captioned wrong in many books. I have seen photos in books that say "Abandoned Panthers of SS Wiking Division in the Cherkassy Pocket". The 5th SS Panzer Division "Wiking" did not have it's Panther Abteilung at the time of Cherkassy. I believe that the abandoned Panthers in the photo I mentioned are actually from the Kamenets-Podolsk Pocket and are from one of the Panzer Divisions trapped there. You wouldn't believe how many books mix up the Cherkassy and Kamenets-Podolsk Pockets.

Anyways, I am rambling now...

Cheers,

Wolfkin

[Mark V.]

Another picture of that Panther .

Mark