High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

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alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 24 Aug 2023 10:00

Thanks Oliver as always, at least I have some more information.

I had put Hans -Georg Risch - pzrgt Gd - +18 kills a year ago, because
I had this information: Oberleutnant Risch and the crew of his Panzer IV single - handedly destroyed 18 enemy tanks, or Oberleutnant Risch and his Panzer IV alone destroyed eighteen enemy tanks.

I recently found a newspaper article where it says that Risch destroyed 18 enemy tanks but with 4 panzers.
https://zeitpunkt.nrw/ulbms/periodical/ ... ehrenblatt
Westfälisches Volksblatt 94 (17.08.1943) 191

At one point it is written:
Unteroffizier Bruns(aus Paderborn) sieben Panzer abschießen konnte, weil er einen"günstigen" Sektor zugeteilt bekommen hatte, während Leutnant Werner"nur" fünf abschießen konnte, ich sogar"nur" vier und Unteroffizier Bohn sogar nur einen.
Unteroffizier Bruns - 7 tanks
Leutnant Werner .- 5 tans
Oberleutnant Risch - 4 tanks
Unteroffizier Bohn - 1 tanks
They make 17, on the 18th I didn't understand whose he is.

Antonio

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pintere
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by pintere » 25 Aug 2023 00:35

Gastolli wrote:
23 Aug 2023 19:40
alcius wrote:
18 Aug 2023 14:04
One is Oberleutnant Erwin Strasser 5 kompanie, Knight's Cross 5/3/45, I have not found anything, neither in the newspapers nor on the Web.
Hello Antonio,

in this case, the chronicle from Herr Gätzschmann had some clue (see entry for 26.2.1945), but also no personal score of Olt. Strasser here. The Germans claimed 16 M4 tanks that day by 5./Pz.Rgt. 33, so it's possible, that Olt. Strasser had some of them to his credit, but I don't know how many Panthers participated in the fights of that day.

Also ..., as usual, the numbers claimed by us (the Germans) might be "a little bit higher" than the reality :-)

Oliver
Thanks for sharing! Bear in mind that the Knight's Cross could be awarded to Panzer commanders for actions that didn't include destroying lots of Panzers (an example is Richard Utgennant, whose RK recommendation I've translated on TracesofWar).

Is there anything else in Gätzschmann's book during the months of December 1944-February 1945 that mentions Strasser or his 5./Pz.Rgt. 33? Although the action on the 26.02.1945 sounds a lot like one that would result in a Knight's Cross, the time delay is very short. Usually the total time from Knight's Cross action to award of the medal itself was about 1 month. Something as short as a week of total processing time (as might be the case here) is not unheard of, but is very rare. Are there any other combat actions described in the book that might have resulted in RK for Strasser?

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 26 Aug 2023 09:35

before coming back to Pz.Rgt. Großdeutschland ...
pintere wrote:
25 Aug 2023 00:35
Is there anything else in Gätzschmann's book during the months of December 1944-February 1945 that mentions Strasser or his 5./Pz.Rgt. 33? Although the action on the 26.02.1945 sounds a lot like one that would result in a Knight's Cross, the time delay is very short. Usually the total time from Knight's Cross action to award of the medal itself was about 1 month. Something as short as a week of total processing time (as might be the case here) is not unheard of, but is very rare. Are there any other combat actions described in the book that might have resulted in RK for Strasser?
Hi Pintere,

there's nothing in the chronicle other than that, and unfortunately neither Oblt. Strasser or even just his 5. Kp. were mentioned personally other than for the action on 26.2.45 (just this one sentence).

AND, additionally, quote Gätzschmann:
5.3.45 [...] Obltn. Strasser, Chef 5. Kompanie, erhält für den Abschuß von 16 amerikanischen Panzern am 26.2.45 das Ritterkreuz.

Well, it was not unusual in 1945 that some soldiers got their Ritterkreuz very quick, compared to the "usual time" needed than going the standard way (paper work) from Regiment up to OKH PA5 in Berlin (via Division, Korps, Armee, Heeresgruppe) ...

Here, a Fernschreiben most probably led the way, like it's the case with one of my "beloved" Hetzer crew members, Uffz. Otto Angel from Pz.Jagd-Abt. 6, who distinguished himself on 10.3.1945 and was awarded the Ritterkreuz on 15.3.1945, just an example.

I'm highly curious too, what exactly happened (could be some action similar to the one from Oblt. Risch from Pz.Rgt. Großdeutschland, those tank kills shared by an couple of tank commanders, not unlikely that Strasser himself didn't had that much, but "leadership")!?

Oliver

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 26 Aug 2023 16:00

alcius wrote:
24 Aug 2023 10:00
I recently found a newspaper article where it says that Risch destroyed 18 enemy tanks but with 4 panzers.
Hello Antonio, that's something!

Of course we can say that THIS article is reliable, giving more details than some combat reports :-)

Interestingly, Oblt. Risch is mentioned as having been the gunner of Graf Strachwitz, before taking over 3./Pz.Rgt. GD.

And, sadly, on the date this article was published Oblt. Risch already was dead, he died 13.8.1943 at Achtyrka!

We now have these tank commanders from 3./Pz.Rgt. GD, action on 30.7.1943 at Alechino:
Uffz. Hermann Bruns (EK2 on 21.8.1943) = 7 tanks (plus 1 tank unconfirmed)
Lt. Horst Werner (EK2 on 21.8.1943) = 5 tanks, but wounded the same day and went to hospital
Oblt. Hans-Georg Risch (EBSp on 5.11.1943) = 4 tanks
Uffz. Bohn ...

That could have been Uffz. Ewald Bohn, he was from 1./Pz.Rgt. GD and so he must have been employed with 3.Kp., or the article was wrong and the name was Böhm, than we have Uffz. Klaus-Dietrich Böhm within 3./Pz.Rgt. GD, or even Uffz. Kurt Böhm from 3./Pz.Rgt. GD. This one remains uncertain!

And, you are right, this account shows 17 tank kills, not 18. Or the one unconfirmed from Uffz. Bruns is tank No. 18 !?

Oliver

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 26 Aug 2023 16:52

Gastolli wrote:
12 Oct 2022 21:28
alcius wrote:
11 Oct 2022 15:31
Unteroffizier Johannes Schneider – Panzerjager – 6 kills
Puh, impossible to identify this man. Johann Schneider, very, very common names in Germany.

Oliver
Thanks Oliver for the additions.

It seemed impossible but I found who it is:
Uffz. Johann Schneider 1/Pz.Jg.Abt. 256, allein sechs Panzer in 15 min nordwestlich Logi abgeschossen habe .

Das Grune Regiment
Der Weg d. 256. Infanterie-Division aus d. Sicht d. Regiments 481
19/8/1943
schneider.png
Antonio
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 27 Aug 2023 12:03

Hello Antonio,

that's pretty obvious, you are right. Good find :thumbsup:

Oliver

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 28 Aug 2023 09:06

Another found in google Books
unfortunately I did not find the date.
muller heinz.png
Antonio
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 29 Aug 2023 19:37

alcius wrote:
28 Aug 2023 09:06
unfortunately I did not find the date.
Hello Antonio,

I found it! From NARA files of 20. Pz.Div., here Roll T315-742 (see below).

This was Oblt. Heinz Müller from Stab Pz.Jg.Abt. 92, he that day acted as a Richtschütze and Geschützführer of a 5 cm Pak at once. His account is handwritten, even not easy to read for me with the bad NARA quality, but here we are (in short):

12.9.1941 at Chosjupino
He destroyed 8 tanks, 2 trucks (with mounted quadruple-MG), 1 truck (with an towed Pak and gun crew) and 1 motorcar. Most of the gun crews around him were not trained on the 5 cm Pak and one other was very shortsighted, that's the reason he took over!!!

I have to add, that Oblt. Heinz Müller later got the Deutsches Kreuz in Gold on 11.6.1942 and ..., he died on 6.7.1943 as an Hauptmann an the Chef of 4./Pz.Abt. 21 (also 20. Pz.Div.)!!!

Interesting biography!

Oliver
0507.jpg
0508.jpg
0509.jpg
0510.jpg
0511.jpg
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alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 30 Aug 2023 15:34

Thanks Oliver. very interesting
I knew about Muller's DKiG, but I didn't know that an Oberleutnant was in command of the piece, I thought it was an ononomy.
Evidently in exceptional cases it happened.

Another:
Gefreiter Kramer vernichtete sieben panzer.
RK - Major Herrmann should be Fritz Herrmann Kdr I./Inf.Rgt 36, therefore the Geferiter then promoted to Unteroffizier is Aloysius Kraemer - 14./Inf.Rgt. 36 - DKiG 7 March 1942.

Znaimer Tagblatt 28. February 1942
https://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno ... ch&seite=7
aloysius Kraemer.png
Antonio
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 02 Sep 2023 21:49

alcius wrote:
30 Aug 2023 15:34
... therefore the Geferiter then promoted to Unteroffizier is Aloysius Kraemer - 14./Inf.Rgt. 36 - DKiG 7 March 1942.
Hello Antonio,

yes, for sure you are right, nice find! And the Deutsches Kreuz in Gold suggests, that this was NOT the only success of Gefr./Uffz. Kraemer!

Oliver

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 04 Sep 2023 11:04

Just found

Unteroffizier Arnold Jaek - 1./Panzerjäger-Abteilung 178 - Marder - 22 kills
German Cross in Gold - 20/09/1943
Newspapers -20 November 1943
jaek.png
Antonio
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by pintere » 05 Sep 2023 14:21

alcius wrote:
04 Sep 2023 11:04
Just found

Unteroffizier Arnold Jaek - 1./Panzerjäger-Abteilung 178 - Marder - 22 kills
German Cross in Gold - 20/09/1943
Newspapers -20 November 1943

jaek.png

Antonio
Nice! Which newspaper is it from, incidentally?

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 06 Sep 2023 10:58

Hello Pintere

I found it in "Fuldaer Zeitung"

Antonio

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by pintere » 06 Sep 2023 18:50

I can add another individual to the list. Feldwebel Josef Christ, of the 5./Pz.Rgt. 35. As can be seen in the attached newspaper clipping, he destroyed 7 Soviet tanks in a single action.
Screenshot 2023-09-06 at 11.44.58 AM-2.png
From the Donau-Bodensee Zeitung, 06.12.1944, pg. 4.
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 09 Sep 2023 10:14

alcius wrote:
04 Sep 2023 11:04
Unteroffizier Arnold Jaek - 1./Panzerjäger-Abteilung 178 - Marder - 22 kills
Hello Antonio!

Sorry for "delay in answer", unfortunately was a little bit busy at work, so ...

Very nice, totally new for me!

I just know that originally Uffz. Jaek was recommended for the Ritterkreuz (no other details, unfortunately), but that was turned into the Deutsches Kreuz in Gold award for several "smaller" actions :-)

And, the same day he got the DKiG also Zugführer Oberfeldwebel Hermann Bitsch from the same Kompanie got the DKiG.

Arnold Jaek is not listed in the Volksbund database, also he's not in the Vermißtenbildliste of the DRK, so should have survived the war.

Oliver

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