High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

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Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 06 Jun 2011 23:52

Michael Kenny wrote:... twice as good ... ?
Wehrmachtsbericht said 224 tanks in Normandy

1. Kompanie = 51 kills (as per photo caption)
2. Kompanie = 61 kills (as per war diary)
3. Kompanie = 112 kills (the rest of it)

???

Don't know :milsmile:

Michael Kenny
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Michael Kenny » 06 Jun 2011 23:55

Hardigan wrote:
Gastolli wrote:So, this is the summary of the 1. Company's score in the Normandy !
Impossible. The Battalion claimed about 240 kills for Normandy , Kalss 1./s.SS-PzAbt.102 was the most successful unit with the best Panzer-Aces in it.
I have the 2nd kp diary. It is extremely detailed and they only claim 18 kills in July and 61 for July and August. If we take the 1st kp claim as 51 then they at least are in sync. This would leave 3rd kp with 128 claims!
Anyway this is all about claims not confirmed kills. Claims are always in excess of reality.

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carius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by carius » 13 Jun 2011 19:57

Hi all!Is it really existed Uscha Oberhaber (s.SS-Pz.Abt.102???) - 127 kills?!!!?

Regards
George

Hardigan
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Hardigan » 13 Jun 2011 20:09

carius wrote:Hi all!Is it really existed Uscha Oberhaber (s.SS-Pz.Abt.102???) - 127 kills?!!!?
These are 127 Panzer and AFV together , the same for Martin Schroif.

Peter K
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Peter K » 13 Jun 2011 21:36

Anyway this is all about claims not confirmed kills. Claims are always in excess of reality.
But everything is about claims when it comes to AFVs. There were no any confirmation procedures.

Hardigan
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Hardigan » 08 Jul 2011 17:31

RKT SS-Hstuf. Paul Senghas claimed 49 Panzerkills with Pzkpw.IV . He received the DKiG after 30 Panzerkillls . For now the top scorer of "Wiking" .

gliz2
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by gliz2 » 30 Jul 2011 09:09

My first post here goes to Wittmann's score.
First of all he's mere 130+ is NOT such a GREAT achievement... Anyone heard of Dmitriy Lavrinenko? The fellow scored 52+ in Barbarossa with his T-34 as he knowed the advantages and disadvantaged of his machine. Just in five months he done that.
Look at Erich Hartmann's score or Ernst Rudel's. The Eastern Front was DIFFERENT. The Russians used Valentine tanks to hunt Tigers and Panthers and with great deal of success. But in general they relied on pure numbers not on some sublime tactics or personal skills. They equipment was of poor making but it was in numbers. And their tactical training was kind of what the Germans were getting from late 1944 - close to none.
So Wittman's 115+ from Eastern Front is not as impressive as it sounds. Yes he was a hell of a tanker but there were better ones out there. My personal fav is Otto Carius who did not even much bother about the scorekeeping. So there is something to both points of this argument:
1. Wittmann might have scored 130+ but it included a lot of of lighter armour like SPGs (esp. in 1943).
2. The Villers-Bocage was a single stunt by MW on Western Front therefore no Allied tankiest could have known him there. He got into one battle destroyed 20+ AFV and then got blowned by Typhoons.

BTW the Allied tankiest have feared Tigers (famous Tigerphobia) and there were occasions when the Brits refused to fight against the Tigers. Which is not such a silly thing to do when you see an open field of 2000 yards and a platoon of Tigers on the better end of it.

piggychops
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by piggychops » 02 Sep 2011 13:41

Hi

If you were 2000m away from a Tiger ambush the protocol was

to go around them with a few fireflys and/or
call for a Jabo wih rockets

the same was true for Soviet heavies, if you were in a mark IV with a long 75, (or even a Tiger).

A Tiger was very vunarable to a side hit from a firefly even using solid shot (rather than APDS).
A Panther ditto with the standard Sherman 75m cannon.

There are those that say MW drove into an ambush and was hit in side armour, by a 17lb.

But if you have a list of tank and PAK kills, then I'd suggest Rudel desrves a foot note mention, his number of kills, party member, lots of missions with tin leg like Douglas Bader.

Rudel probably had a gun camera for his engegement, I think he needed to post a 40mm into a T-34's engine vent, any one got a gun camera photo?

Noel

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Marcus
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Marcus » 05 Sep 2011 16:52

The discussion about Rudel and his score now has a thread of its own at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 9&t=181656

/Marcus

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AlifRafikKhan
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by AlifRafikKhan » 07 Nov 2011 20:59

According to book "Panther vs T-34 Ukraine 1943 (Duel)" by Robert A. Forczyk, Oberfeldwebel Gerhard Brehme is credited with 51 kills...

Image source is the book itself
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AlifRafikKhan
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by AlifRafikKhan » 08 Nov 2011 23:48

Hauptmann Friedrich Karl Nökel hat als Abteilungskommandeur in einem Panzerregiment elf sowjetische Kampfwagen vernichtet. Im Ganzen hat seine Abteilung an demselben Angriffstage u.a. 22 feindliche Panzer und 30 Pakgeschütze zur Strecke gebracht. Unser Bild zeigt Hauptmann Noekel, der vom Führer mit dem Ritterkreuz zum Eisernen Kreuz ausgezeichnet wurde, mit seiner Panzerbesatzung.
So at least he has 11 personal kills...

Source: http://mediabase1.uib.no/pls/apex/f?p=1 ... :11831,828
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AlifRafikKhan
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by AlifRafikKhan » 12 Nov 2011 05:22

Another addition: Leutnant Johann Straub. At least he has 18 abschußbalken on his Geschutz, and this was before he received Ritterkreuz!

Source: Book "Achtung Panzer - Sturmgeschütz III, StuG.IV & SIG.33"
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NagaSadow
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by NagaSadow » 28 Aug 2013 22:28

Hans Soretz
22 tanks
18 anti-tank guns
30 vehicles
until 15th August 1944 (according to his DKiG proposal)

Source: Tiger der SS-Division Reich

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AlifRafikKhan
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by AlifRafikKhan » 16 Oct 2013 10:23

Unteroffizier Helmuth Harth...
Sergeant
Helmuth Harth
(12./PzReg 21)
12th TANK REGIMENT 21
Holder of :
KNIGHT CROSS

Sergeant Helmut Harth, born 15 th of May 1917 in Berleburg,
was awarded the Knights Cross on 22 th of Jan. 1943.
He has since beginning of the campaign against Russia multiple approved first as a gunner (Richtschütze), later than commander of a tank.
It was involved by the destruction from over 60 enemy tanks
Source: http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/g ... rth-panzer
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Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 07 Dec 2014 08:06

Gentlemen,

Kurt Knispel had mostly tank kills as a gunner under Unteroffizier Rippl of 503 Heavy Panzer Battalion. Rippl with Knispel as gunner had destroyed more than 60 enemy tanks during operation "Citadel" Source "Panzer Aces 2" by Franz Kurowski,page 209. I don't know what was Rippl's total high score for WWII.
Konrad Weinert of 503 Heavy Panzer Battalion, must have been recommended for the German Cross In Gold a few months before he was killed in action on December of 1943. January 10,1944 was when he was awarded the German Cross In Gold after his death.

Sincerely,

Edward L. Hsiao

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