High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

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Michael Kenny
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Michael Kenny » 28 Sep 2018 01:13

Cult Icon wrote:
28 Sep 2018 00:49
or it's not that important? nobody cares
A 13 year thread with 17 pages is proof 'nobody cares'!

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Cult Icon » 26 Jul 2019 04:06

Edward L. Hsiao wrote:
15 Dec 2014 08:11
Gentlemen,

Like Kurt Knispel and a few other high scoring tank killers,Konrad Weinert should have gotten the Knight's Cross. I had a hunch that Weinert after his death was nominated posthumously for the Knight's Cross. 59 kills over enemy tanks was a lot for Konrad Weinert as panzer commander. What happened to his nomination remains unknown. Weinert had gotten his German Cross in Gold posthumously. By the way,there were a number of brave German soldiers of WWII that were awarded both the German Cross in Gold and the Knight's Cross posthumously.
A bit late to this one- the RK was not awarded based on an accumulated kill tally but a single outstanding leadership/combat action. Also the relationship between the soldier and his superiors also played a major role in deciding whether or not to assemble a packet and submit it.

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by markr » 24 May 2020 18:24

Looking for tank killers in North Africa and Italy; did a couple of searches in forum but did not come across anything.

I know from other sources that Johannes Kummel destroyed a number of tanks during 1941-42 (from reading "Panzer Aces II"), and that Hans Sandrock destroyed a number during that same period. Also recall seeing a couple of websites in which Hermann Eckhardt was credited with 26 (of his total of 78) while in North Africa.

I saw the award narrative for Anton Kreuzberg, in which he was credited with 9 x kills in one day (spring 1944), using a Nashorn of Sch. Jag. Pz. Abt 525, and the narrative for Fritz Bohm, 6/Pz Regiment 26, with 3 x Shermans in one day (July 1944). Also reviewed one website that had a Leutnant "Zint" and an Uffz "Hammerschmidt" , with sch. Pz Abt 508, credited with 11 and 6 x Shermans, respectively, on 24.2.44. Last, saw
that a Herbert Fries was credited with 20 x kills during period of 21-24.5.44, using a Panther Turret from a fixed position.

Other PZKW, Tiger I tank killers in North Africa, 1941-43?
PZKW, Panther, Tiger I, Sturmgeschutz/Pz Jaeger tank killers in Italy, 1943-45?

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by andrek » 18 Jul 2020 17:06

Has the 16x Knispel kills been confirmed by anyone? I have the impression that a certain Mr. Kurowski :lol: invented a number when he wrote the fairy tale book about Knispel. This number has been copied over and over again by other book authors. No German court would recognize this number. 8O

As for Wittmann there are two official confirmation letters that would be recognized by any German court. By the way, the German historian Sören Neitzel does not recognize these documents. Neitzel is a political historian who is often active on behalf of German state television. He would never say anything positive about the German Wehrmacht etc. . If he were positive, he would no longer receive orders from state television. It's that simple here in Germany. Neitzel is not neutral.

:? Then there is the case of the "great unknown" aka Martin Schroif. The man really existed! But there is almost zero information about Schroif. There is really nothing!

As for Bobby Woll, the Paganini :thumbsup: of the gunner, according to Otto Carius, he should never have been awarded the Knight's Cross. The regulations don't allow that. A gunner always works on the instructions of the commander, says Carius.

It gets even more confusing when I look at the aces of aces lists that exists on the WWW. On one of them, Hyacinth Graf Strachwitz von Groß-Zauche und Camminetz is listed in second place. ~ 160 to 200 kills as far as I remember correctly. No. 1 is Knispel.

For me, these numbers of shootings are very dubious to inexplicable. I have similar doubts about Lafayette Green Pool's (according to Wikipedia) 1,000 German soldiers killed, and 250 more taken as prisoners.

No matter, it is impossible to bring some light into this darkness afterwards.

Recently there was a short report about Wittmann on German state TV. It was said that he was a Nazi, he was a NSDAP member. Knispel was also mentioned briefly. I had the impression that the maker of this short report sees Knispel as a resistance fighter. The number of kills was also questioned here. The case is similar to that of WWI fighter pilot Hermann Göring. His kills are also questioned. He was called a fraudster on German state television and a coward who preferred to stay at home in the last months of the war rather than with his men.

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Cult Icon » 23 Jul 2020 15:35

Alfred Rubbel commanded Knispel and has some personal recollections about him in his war diary. I think I read one of Dale Ritter's old posts when doing a search and he said that Rubbel told him something about Knispel's actual number. Check feldgrau or Axishistory, I don't remember what that account was about.

https://www.amazon.com/TIGER-PROJECT-De ... 85fb77bc58

Over time these claims such be taken with a grain of salt however it is generally true that the Germans destroyed A LOT of allied/soviet AFVs and the actual statistics prove it in engagement days & battles.

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 23 Jul 2020 23:01

Hello,

well, I have seen an letter from an Officer of 1./s.Pz.Abt. 503, written on 2.3.1944 to another tank officer, whom I knew personally. This letter still is in his property, so I just quote this sentence from this particular letter:

"Es ist die 1./503, [...] die inzwischen bei dem schweren Regiment Bäke Riesenerfolge errang, so dass beispielsweise ein Feldwebel nach seinem 86. Abschuß zum Ritterkreuz eingereicht wurde, ein Richtschütze seinen 99. Abschuß."

He refers to the 1st company of 503, the aforementioned Feldwebel was Oberfeldwebel Hans Fendesack who for action on 5.2.1944 at Wotylewka was recommended for the Ritterkreuz by Heeresgruppe Süd, but "just" was credited with the "Nennung im Ehrenblatt des Deutschen Heers", the Ehrenblattspange.

The aforementioned Richtschütze of course was Uffz. Kurt Knispel.

Kind regards
Oliver

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 24 Jul 2020 03:28

Gentlemen,

I wonder what was Oberfeldwebel Hans Fendesack's final score of destroyed enemy tanks was before he was killed in action in the middle of 1944? Was Fendesack latter was recommended for the Knight's Cross again? Maybe he was recommended for the KC again.

Sincerely,

Edward L. Hsiao

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by bubalma » 24 Jul 2020 03:36

Obergefreiter Bernhard Himmelskamp: 4/Panzer-Regiment 35 on the Eastern Front. Killed in action 29 August 1943. Awarded the Knights Cross posthumously on 13 September 1943. 40 kills.

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Michael Kenny » 24 Jul 2020 05:35

The Knispel award claims:

https://youtu.be/pfmilK8D0_Y?t=178

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 28 Nov 2020 03:27

Otto Wiesemann,Panzer Commander Zugfuhrer (platoon leader) 1.Panzerregiment 1, had more than 50 kills while commanding his Panther tank by the end of 1944. Knight's Cross holder.
I got that information from Wehrmacht Awards Forum.

Edward L. Hsiao

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 09 Feb 2021 20:26

Not that it will have any impact on those determined to make up the numbers as they go along, but I found this video discussion very valuable at exorcising any of my remaining doubts as to the ridiculous nature of many German "tank claims":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfmilK8D0_Y

Either made up for the promotion of one formation against another, Nazi propaganda or by historians who refuse to listen to the contrary evidence supplied by German panzer veterans... :roll: :roll:

Regards

Tom

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Cult Icon » 16 Feb 2021 04:32

SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer Hans Siegel (8th Panzer Company, SS PzR12) was awarded the Knight's Cross on August 23rd 1944 for destroying 37 tanks with his company. 11 of these were credited to himself.

This proposal was penned in early July 1944, with actions on 11.6.1944 and 27.6.1944 being highlighted but not totally inclusive.
Last edited by Cult Icon on 16 Feb 2021 15:55, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Cult Icon » 16 Feb 2021 04:46

SS-Standartenoberjunker Fritz Langanke, platoon leader in II./SS-Pz.Rgt.2 credited with knocking out 12 tanks and 4 anti-tank guns on 28th July 1944 in his RK proposal, approved August 27th1944.

Ernst Barkmann's RK for 14 kills (Barkmann's corner) was also approved on this day. Wittman's Villers RK was approved very early- on June 22nd.

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Cult Icon » 16 Feb 2021 05:12

SS-Untersturmfuhrer Reeb of 7./SS-Pz.Rgt. "Das Reich" credited with two anti-tank guns destroyed on 8.7.1944. according to his RK proposal (among other things).

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Cult Icon » 16 Feb 2021 05:25

SS-Obersturmfuhrer Alois Kalss of 1./SS Pz Battalion 102 credited with 42 tanks kills by 11.7.44 in his July 20th RK proposal.

Not including Alois and other SS tankers, Waffen SS RK proposals with kill claims for armor crews in the battle of Normandy should be just 5 individuals (approved) by the end of August: Wittmann, Barkmann, Siegel, Langanke, Reeb
Last edited by Cult Icon on 16 Feb 2021 19:46, edited 2 times in total.

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