High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

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alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 28 Jan 2023 17:55

The other is Unteroffizier Becker
Unteroffizier Becker in einer Panzerjägerabteilung hat am 3. November 1944 im Brückenkopf Meisel südöstlich Helmond von 20 angreifenden Panzern 6 Panzer abgeschossen und damit den Angriff zum Stehen gebracht

Zeitung 16/11/1944
becker unteroffizier.png
I do not know anything else

Antonio
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Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 29 Jan 2023 13:53

Hello Antonio,

as for Ofw. Becker from Pz.Jg.Kp. 1299:
yes, this was the success of his Zug, 3 Sturmgeschütze, so we can't see what was his personal score. But thank you!

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 29 Jan 2023 14:23

alcius wrote:
28 Jan 2023 17:55
Unteroffizier Becker in einer Panzerjägerabteilung
Hello Antonio,

seems to be XXXXVII. Panzerkorps sector, with 9. PD, 15. PGD, 180. ID, 344. ID ..., but I can't tell you more on this Uffz. Becker (which, again, is a VERY common name in Germany).

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 30 Jan 2023 10:42

Thanks Oliver
Gefreiter Richter - 5 kills
Pommersche Panzerjager?
Zeitung August 1943
richter gefreiter.png
Antonio
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Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 30 Jan 2023 20:41

alcius wrote:
30 Jan 2023 10:42
Gefreiter Richter - 5 kills
Hello Antonio,

first, it's 10 tank kills for this Pak gunner, 5 tanks on 5.8.1943 and 5 tanks a few days before already!

I think it should be Gefr. Werner Richter from 14./G.R. 508 of 292. Inf.Div., who according to my notes (don't ask me on my source for that) destroyed 6 tanks on 31.7.1943 and 4 tanks plus one damaged on 6.8.1943. Sounds correct, with slight differences on the newspaper.

At least 292. Inf.Div. originates from Pommern :)

Gefreiter Richter later on 21.10.1944 got the Deutsches Kreuz in Gold as an Unteroffizier in the same company.

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 31 Jan 2023 11:11

Thanks, Oliver
I have mission impossible
Zeitung 25 August 1943
Oberleutnant with 9 kills ?
oberleutnant.png
Antonio
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Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 31 Jan 2023 21:27

alcius wrote:
31 Jan 2023 11:11
I have mission impossible
Hi Antonio,

no, I would not say that ...

This newspaper (do you have a link or the name of the newspaper?) refers to a "württembergische Panzerdivision", i.e. the 23. Pz.Div. (Pz.Rgt. 23).

And, of course, heavy fighting in the middle of August for 23. Pz.Div.:

16.8.43: 12 tanks killed by I./Pz.Rgt. 23 at Dolgenkaja
17.8.43: 37 tanks killed by 23. PD
18.8.43: 9 tanks killed by 23. PD
19.8.43: 36 T34, 1 KW1 killed by 23. PD
22.8.43: 65 tanks killed by I./Pz.Rgt. 23 at Dolgenkaja
23.8.43: 56 tanks killed by I./Pz.Rgt. 23 at Dolgenkaja
24.8.43: 35 tanks killed by 23. PD

my candidate: Leutnant Karl Herlitschka, Führer of 1./Pz.Rgt. 23
He got the Anerkennungsurkunde on 5.10.1943 for action on 22.8.1943 at Dolgenkaja (!)
This of course leads to the assumption that he had a high number of tanks kills that day.

But, well, he's a Leutnant, not a Oberleutnant, and he was the Führer of 1. Kompanie, not the Chef.

On the other hand, Leutnant Herbert Dantzer on 17.12.1943 got the Ehrenblattspange as "Führer of 1./Pz.Rgt. 23" and action on "27.9.1943 at Tarasowka", just one month later, so obviously Leutnant Herlitschka was no longer Führer of 1. Kompanie, he was probably wounded during the action on 22.8.1943.

The Panther-Abteilung had not yet joined the Division, so Lt. Herlitschka is the only one I would suggest in this case!?

Note: He's reported missing from 18.2.1944 onwards, but is not to be found in Volksbund Kriegsgräber databas or in the Vermißtenbildlisten of the Deutsches Rote Kreuz, also no Personalakte exists, so obviously a Reserve-Offizier.

It's possible that he became a Oberleutnant and was declared "Chef" of 1. Kp. shortly after this event, or the newspaper is just wrong (that's possible of course).

Or ..., I am wrong :-)

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 01 Feb 2023 11:28

Hi Oliver
I found the article in some newspapers, one is this.
https://zeitpunkt.nrw/ulbbn/periodical/ ... en%20ab%22
Die Heimat am Mittag (25/08/1943) 198

However I don't think it's Dantzer, because I found an article from 14 January 1944 about him too.
From what I understand, he must have only destroyed Paks.
dantzer.png
Antonio
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Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 01 Feb 2023 22:34

alcius wrote:
01 Feb 2023 11:28
However I don't think it's Dantzer, because I found an article from 14 January 1944 about him too.
Hello Antonio,

thanks for the link on the Herlitschka (?) article.

As for Leutnant Dantzer: yes, the Dantzer action was on 27.9.1943 at Tarasowka, thanks for this newspaper clipping. Although no tank kills reported, it's an important mosaic for the Bio of this officer.

My point was, that the newspaper clipping mentioning Herlitschka's (?) action also mentions that he was wounded. And, as Lt. Dantzer just one month after the action from Lt. Herlitschka (22.8.1943) also was the Führer of 1./Pz.Rgt. 23, well, Lt. Herlitschka obviously left the company, most probably wounded, just another evidence.

Some further digging within available files at Bundesarchiv may provide more certainty in this case, but I'm pretty sure I'm on the right path :-)

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 02 Feb 2023 17:00

Ok Oliver
Another
Oberfeldwebel Leopold Hütter - 2.Pz.Abt.118 - 10 kills with his zug.
Ehrenblatt 27/12/1944
I don't know the number of his personal victories
hutter.png
hutter2.png
Antonio
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Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 02 Feb 2023 21:28

alcius wrote:
02 Feb 2023 17:00
Oberfeldwebel Leopold Hütter - 2.Pz.Abt.118 - 10 kills with his zug.
Hi Antonio,

well, I would say the three Josef Stalin mentioned were his personal score "mit seinem beschädigten Sturmgeschütz", he was all alone, but the other two actions were "mit seinem Zug" ...

The action for the Ehrenblatt was that for 21.10.1944 (location = Steinkirch), and originally it was an recommendation for the German Cross in Gold, so that's the reason the newspaper lists THREE actions instead of the usual one!

He got the EK 1 on 6.4.1944 for actions around Stanislau (Pz.Abt. 118 was employed there).

And, sadly he fell on 18.1.1945 at Mielau.

Overall he had at least 5 tank kills, but I would expect a lot more over the course of his career.

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 03 Feb 2023 16:45

Thanks Oliver
I have some zeitungsausschnitt from Traces Of War, their victories are few, but I think in total they are more.

Leutnant Karl Pfeiffer - Panzerjäger-Abteilung 37 - 4 kills
https://www.mystiwot.nl/myst/upload/per ... 1%20PM.png

Leutnant Hermann Schulz . PZ.Rgt.23 – 3 kills
https://www.mystiwot.nl/myst/upload/per ... 9%20AM.png

Feldwebel Ludwig Scholl – Pz.Rgt.21 – 5 kills?
https://www.mystiwot.nl/myst/upload/per ... G_4172.jpg

Antonio

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 05 Feb 2023 15:57

Hello Antonio,
alcius wrote:
03 Feb 2023 16:45
their victories are few, but I think in total they are more.
unfortunately I can't add anything on these three man, but you are right, all of them were experienced Panzer and Panzerjäger soldiers and for sure had more than the described tank victories ...

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 05 Feb 2023 16:24

Obergefreite Lucian Kabell - panzerregiment - 6 kills
Der Grafschafter. 1914-1945 48 (26.2.1943)
kabell.png
Antonio
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Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 05 Feb 2023 17:19

Hello Antonio,

this is easy, but a very, very nice find!!!

4./Pz.Rgt. 11 (Panzer IV), according to the Fold3 card (I just can see the low res thumbnail, but it's clear enough), but it fits with the claim "westfälisches Panzerregiment" and fights going on west of the Donez. That day Pz.Rgt. 11 in total had 13 tank kills with 5 own losses, among them 2 total losses.

Oberleutnant Walter Spiekermann was Chef of 4./Pz.Rgt. 11 from 20.1.1943 on ...

Oliver

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