Division von Stumpfeld

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Königstiger
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Post by Königstiger » 04 Aug 2005 11:46

Thank you very much Abel!

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Dieter Zinke
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Re: Division von Stumpfeld

Post by Dieter Zinke » 06 Dec 2016 18:00

By chance I found an interesting link for this old topic:
http://schutz-brett.org/3x/de/23-archiv ... aulus.html
according the source: http://newzz.in.ua/histori/1148860092-r ... lyusa.html

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Art
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Re: Division von Stumpfeld

Post by Art » 08 Dec 2016 21:39

As already pointed out the story is just a legend. Some info on actual composition of the group/sector Stumpfeld is here:
http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic.php?t=4787

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Re: Division von Stumpfeld

Post by Art » 09 Dec 2016 07:56

It is worth to add that the number of Hiwis in the Stalingrad pocket was estimated as about 20 000:
https://www.bundesarchiv.de/oeffentlich ... 59.html.de
Higher numbers are a result of misinterpretation of original documents.

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Dieter Zinke
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Re: Division von Stumpfeld

Post by Dieter Zinke » 09 Dec 2016 11:21

According some sources the "Gruppe Stumpfeld" was elevated to "Division Stumpfeld" on 12.12.1942 under the PzAOK 4.
Is this correct?
The Kdr. was consequently Generalmajor Hans-Joachim von Stumpfeld, who went in the "Führer-Reserve" already on 01.01.1943.
Is there a successor as commander?
BTW: von Stumpfeld left the service permanently on 31.05.1943.

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Re: Division von Stumpfeld

Post by Art » 09 Dec 2016 15:20

From what I see, on 14 December it was still called Gr. Stumpfeld on Lage Ost map. I believe by that moment a part of its former elements at the Lower Chir River came under command of 384 Division staff. Both "Gruppe v. Stumpfeld" and "Abschnitt v. Stumpfeld" were used as its designation in November-December 1942.

Here is an OOB of Gruppe von Stumpfeld and other groups (Spang, Stahel) about 30 November and situation map for the same day

Image
Image
Image

Image

There are two groups Selle on the map which is quite confusing. I guess, the correct one is in the north, whereas the one in the south must be gruppe Heilmann.

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Dieter Zinke
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Re: Division von Stumpfeld

Post by Dieter Zinke » 09 Dec 2016 17:32

Grateful thanks!

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Re: Division von Stumpfeld

Post by CNE503 » 09 Dec 2016 18:38

Yeah, that's great Art! Thanks for sharing it!

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Yuri
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Re: Division von Stumpfeld

Post by Yuri » 24 Dec 2016 23:25

About Gr "Schtumpfeld" (Division Schtumpfeld) see here.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5&t=116000

In documents from 30.11.1942 (which indicated Art) is a proposed composition of combat groups, not actual.
Here the composition of the Gr "Schtumpfeld" 3.12.1942
Gr.v.Stumpfeld.Gliederung.3.12.42-1Teil.jpg
Gr.v.Stumpfeld.Gliederung.3.12.42-2Teil.jpg
and Gr "Adam" on 4.12.1942.
48PzK(Gliederung-42.12.04).jpg
Gr "Adam" 13.12.1942 converted to 384 ID,
Pz.AOK.4.48PzK.Starke - A-Correct.jpg
Pz.AOK.4.48PzK.Starke - B-Correct.jpg
and composition Gr "Schtumpfeld" became so.
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Re: Division von Stumpfeld

Post by Yuri » 24 Dec 2016 23:27

Gr.v.Stumpfeld.Kriegsgliederung_.jpg
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Re: Division von Stumpfeld

Post by Art » 25 Sep 2018 16:54

On related note: that is the OOB of Ost- units in the region of Stalingrad in November 1942 (start of "Uranus")

Schematic OOB:

Image
Image

Old and new unit designations:

Image

Nothing like a division-sized force either in the pocket or outside it.

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