Waffen-SS Information needed on planned units

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ViKinG
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Waffen-SS Information needed on planned units

Post by ViKinG » 14 Jan 2006 06:54

I have found these following names as possibly planned or fictitious Waffen-SS Divisions. Does anybody know anything at all about them or where I can find info, if they did exist???! Any help would be great.

39.SS-Gebirgsjäger-Division - "Andreas Hofer"
40.SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division - "Feldherrnhalle"
41.Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (finnisches Nr.1) - "Kalevala"
42.SS-Division - "Niedersachsen"
43.SS-Division - "Reichsmarschall"
44.SS-Panzer-Division - "Wallenstein"
45.SS-Division - "Waräger"

Luc

Marc Rikmenspoel
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Post by Marc Rikmenspoel » 14 Jan 2006 08:37

That old list makes the rounds once in a while. It came from an early edition of Bruce Quarrie's Hitler's Samurai, and was based on honor titles that were mentioned in documents, but were never given to genuine units.

In 1944 the Gauleiter of the Tyrol proposed forming a new mountain division, and naming it after the folk hero Andreas Hofer (the Gauleiter's name was Höfer too), but all mountain trained personnel and cardres were needed for maintaining the existing divisions.

At some point late in the war there was a proposal to join the Panzer Division Feldherrnhalle with the 18. SS-FPGD Horst Wessel, to form a corps with ties to the SA. If this had come to pass, the PD FHH might have been transfered to the Waffen-SS, but instead, the Heer formed its own FHH Panzerkorps by converting the 13. PD.

The "Kalevala" is the Finnish national epic, and if the Finnish Volunteer Battalion of the SS hadn't been disbanded at Finnish request in 1943, it would have formed the core of a motorcycle regiment to be named Kalevala.

Officials in Lower Saxony proposed raising an SS division from their region, similar to the idea in the Tyrol, but again it wasn't practical to raise the Niedersachsen Division.

There was consideration late in the war in making a Luftwaffe Feld unit (which by then were under Heer control) into a Waffen-SS division. If this had transpired, it would have been named Reichsmarschall.

Numerous Waffen-SS training and replacement units and arms schools were located in the occupied Czech lands. Late in the war it was decided to mobilize many of these into a new division to be named Wallenstein. However, the events in the field moved too quickly, the elements that were to form Division Wallenstein instead were cxommitted to emergency action as SS-KG Division Böhmen-Mähren. But Wallenstein came closer to existing than any of these other divisions.

Wärager is German for "Varangian," referring to the Nordic raiders who eventually provided the Imperial Guard in Byzantium. This was Himmler's initial proposed name for the 11. SS-FPGD, since it was to be the sister division to Wiking. But Hitler considered the reference too obscure, and preferred that the name Nordland be carried on from the former regiment. This is what of course happened in fact.

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Miha Grcar
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Post by Miha Grcar » 14 Jan 2006 13:07

viewtopic.php?t=79614&start=0 - an earlier discusion on some SS unit names.

best,
Miha

Rob - wssob2
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Post by Rob - wssob2 » 14 Jan 2006 14:28

Here's what I've got on the paper/fantasy units:

Occasionally an additional seven Waffen-SS divisions appear in military history books, a recent example being German Anti-Partisan Warfare in Europe 1939-45 by Colin Heaton, published in 2001. These additional seven divisions (numbered 39-45) are not mentioned in many comprehensive histories of the Waffen-SS, including George Stein's The Waffen-SS and Kurt Mehner's Die Waffen-SS und Polizei 1939-45

Did these seven additional divisions actually exist? Were they "paper" divisions (i.e. divisions that the SS-FHA planned to create had the war lasted longer) or are they mere fantasy units? Below is a list of the seven divisions and information we've been able to compile on them so far:

39. Gerbirgs-Division der SS Andreas Höfer
Andreas Höfer (1767-1810) was a Austrian patriot from the Tyrol who led a popular rebellion against Napoleon's troops. The French suppressed the uprising and had Höfer shot in Mantua. In 1823 his remains were re-interred the court chapel in Innsbruck.

There is no evidence to suggest that the 39. Gerbirgs-Division der SS ever existed.

40. SS-Freiwilligen Panzergrenadier-Division Feldherrnhalle
The "Feldherrnhalle" is the building in Munich where in November 1923, the police fired on a marching mob of Nazis, quashing Hitler's "Beer Hall Putsch." After Hitler came to power the building became a shrine to fallen Nazis. Feldherrnhalle subsequently became an honor title for several paramilitary and military formations, including the SA-Luftwaffe hybrid "SA Standarte Feldherrnhalle (1937-39) and the Heer's Grenadier Regiment 271 (title awarded 1942, unit upgraded to Panzergrenadier-Division Feldherrnhalle June 1943, disbanded July 1944 - possbily reformed; remnants destroyed in Budapest pocket Jan 1945)

Given the simmering animosity between the SA and SS, it would be unusual (although not unheard of) for an SS unit to assume an honor title so affiliated with the Brownshirts.

There is no evidence to suggest that the 40. SS-Freiwilligen Panzergrenadier-Division ever existed, and there is evidence to suggest that the existence of the division may be a case of mistaken identity. Historian Perry Pierik in his book Hungary 1944-45: The Forgotten Tragedy, cites historian R.L. Braham's book The Politics of Genocide. The Holocaust in Hungary I,II (New York, 1981).

According to Pierik, Braham refers to an incident where Swedish diplomat and Holocaust hero Raoul Wallenberg managed to convince "SS-General Schmidthuber" of the "SS-Division Feldherrnhalle" not to destroy Budapest's Jewish Ghetto just as the Red Army forces encircled the city. However, Generalmajor Gerhard Schmidthuber was not a member of the Waffen-SS and did not command a W-SS division, but was the CO of the German Army's 13th Panzer Division. However, there was a Heer Panzergrenadier "Division" Feldherrnhalle under German Army Oberstleutnant Wolff stationed in the city during the seige.

41. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS Kalevala (finnisches nr.1)
The Kalevala is the Finnish national epic song-cycle - a collection of mythic poems compiled and published by Elias Lönnrot in the 1830's. The Kalevala is a crucial component of Finnish culture, and it's publication heralded the birth of modern Finnish nationalism.

The Waffen-SS did raise the 1,000-man Finnisches Freiwilligen-Batallion der Waffen-SS in 1941, but it was quietly disbanded in 1943 when the Finns realized that they wanted their boys home due to the tide turning against the Germans. Perhaps the SS-FHA was interested in forming a Finnish SS division, but the Finns had absolutely no interest in joining one. In September, 1944, the W-SS did attempt to form a new Finnish W-SS volunteer regiment, but only 5 Finnish officers and 60 enlisted men volunteered.

There is no evidence to suggest that the 41. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS ever existed.

42. Waffen-SS Division Niedersachsen
No data available on this unit.

43. Waffen-SS Division Reichsmarshall
The most famous "Reichsmarshall" of World War II is of course, Hermann Göring, one of Hitler's right-hand men and founder of the Luftwaffe. Göring was a rival of Himmler's in the Third Reich political jungle and it's extremely unlikely either Nazi leader would have wanted to raise a "joint-venture" military unit with the other.

44. Waffen-SS Panzergrenadier Division Wallenstein
Graf von Pückler-Burghaus, Waffen-SS Commander for the Protectorate of Bohemia-Moravia, supposedly proposed the creation of a scratch SS division to be named Wallenstein. This "division" supposedly had four components - Kampfgruppen Klein, Jöchel, Reimann and Milowicz, each supposedly named after the CO. The unit is supposed to have participated in defending against the citizen's uprising against Prague in May 1945 and possibly in helping evacuate the volksdeutsche citizens of the city either alongside or as part of the 2nd SS Das Reich division.

There is evidence that this unit may have existed, although calling it a "division" is a major stretch. SS-Staf. Jöchel did command "SS-Junkerschule Prag" in March 1945. A "SS-Reit und Fahrschule" did exist at Milowitz in March 1945. (perhaps the kampgruppe was named after the location of the fahrschule instead of an officer) Prague's citizens did stage an uprising, did wreak havoc on the volksdeutsche population, and the Das Reich division did lead a civilian convoy out of the city in literally the last hours of the war. The US 5th Infantry Division newspaper of May 10, 1945 does mention SS-Kampfgruppen Klein and Jöchel.

The Wallenstein (which incidentally is also the name of a city) unit was most likely an ad-hoc scratch band of SS troops that operated in the vicinity of Prague during the last week of the war.

45. SS-Division Waräger
The Ostbattalion website does provide some interesting information to indicate that a 600-man formation White Russian troops may have been named "Warager". This unit was supposedly formed at Belgrade in March 1942 (perhaps as part of the Russian Defense Corps?) and fought against Tito's Partisans before being assimilated into the KONR(?).

Another interesting possibility is that one of the supposed alternate names for the 11th SS division (or the units that would eventually comprise the division) during February 1943 might have been "SS-Kampfverband Waräger", but the evidence for this is so sparse as to be speculative.

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Reader3000
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Post by Reader3000 » 14 Jan 2006 15:42

By the way, it was not "Höfer" but "Hofer", with "o", not with "ö". :wink: (see German Wikipedia article: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Hofer)

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Harro
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Post by Harro » 14 Jan 2006 15:56

The forming of the imaginary "SS-Panzer-Regiment 26 "Reichsmarschall" was a disguise for disbanding SS-Panzer-Brigade Gross in Sennelager as replacements for the 6.Panzer-Armee.

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Post by Larry D. » 14 Jan 2006 16:27

45. SS-Division Waräger
The Ostbattalion website does provide some interesting information to indicate that a 600-man formation White Russian troops may have been named "Warager". This unit was supposedly formed at Belgrade in March 1942 (perhaps as part of the Russian Defense Corps?) and fought against Tito's Partisans before being assimilated into the KONR(?).


The name "Waräger" or the existence of a separately identifiable 600-man formation of White Russian troops as described above does not appear in any of the records of any of the German commands present in the former Yugoslavia, 1941-45, i.e.:

Heeresgruppe E (Oberbefehlshaber Südost)
Heeresgruppe F (Oberbefehlshaber Südost)
Panzer-Armeeoberkommando 2
Wehrmachtbefehlshaber Südost (AOK 12)
Militärbefehlshaber Serbien
Bevollmächtigter Kommandierender General in Serbien
Kommandierender General und Befehlshaber in Serbien
Befehlshaber der Dt. Truppen in Kroatien
Militärbefehlshaber Südost
Deutscher Bevollmächtigter General in Kroatien
Deutscher Bevollmächtigter General in Albanien
Befehlshaber Syrmien
HSSPF Kroatien and its predecessors
HSSPF Serbien and its predecessors
Generalkommandos (Corps commands - total of 12)

In continuous research from 1977-94, I reviewed every roll of microfilmed records belonging to these commands and took notes on every unit mentioned, even the very smallest one (nearly 10,000 in all). So, if this unit existed, it must have been known to the Germans by some other name.

--Larry

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Post by Der Weisse Wolf » 14 Jan 2006 16:42

Rob - wssob2 wrote:The Waffen-SS did raise the 1,000-man Finnisches Freiwilligen-Batallion der Waffen-SS in 1941, but it was quietly disbanded in 1943 when the Finns realized that they wanted their boys home due to the tide turning against the Germans. Perhaps the SS-FHA was interested in forming a Finnish SS division, but the Finns had absolutely no interest in joining one.


This has been discussed probably many times before, but in addition of Finnish bataillon there was 400 Finnish volunteers(mostly elder volunteers with combat experience) scattered within Wiking Division when Barbarossa kicked off at June 41. Suriving Finns were in 1942 incorporated in the Finnish Bataillon. Also 200 replacements were sent from Finland in 1942. Also Finnish SS Regiment was in German plans straight from the beginning, and thus there were too many officers in recruitments. But Finnish State did not like the regiment idea as the whole recruitment in Finland was kept in rather low profile, if not in secret, as there were some political opposition against it. Aside from SS-doctor, who ensured that only "racially eligible" and those with good teeth were allowed to join, recruitment in Finland was kept in mostly in Finnish hands as opposite of "free legion" countries which were occupied (Holland, Denmark, Norway etc.).

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Post by Marc Rikmenspoel » 14 Jan 2006 20:31

Timo mentions the cover name used, "SS-Panzer Reg. 26 Reichsmarschall." I believe this was put in place after the idea had been raised, and turned down, of creating the SS-Division Reichsmarschall. The title idea was still there, and was used in this deception ploy.

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Post by Mark V. » 14 Jan 2006 21:11

Larry D. wrote:
45. SS-Division Waräger
The Ostbattalion website does provide some interesting information to indicate that a 600-man formation White Russian troops may have been named "Warager". This unit was supposedly formed at Belgrade in March 1942 (perhaps as part of the Russian Defense Corps?) and fought against Tito's Partisans before being assimilated into the KONR(?).


The name "Waräger" or the existence of a separately identifiable 600-man formation of White Russian troops as described above does not appear in any of the records of any of the German commands present in the former Yugoslavia, 1941-45, i.e.:

Heeresgruppe E (Oberbefehlshaber Südost)
Heeresgruppe F (Oberbefehlshaber Südost)
Panzer-Armeeoberkommando 2
Wehrmachtbefehlshaber Südost (AOK 12)
Militärbefehlshaber Serbien
Bevollmächtigter Kommandierender General in Serbien
Kommandierender General und Befehlshaber in Serbien
Befehlshaber der Dt. Truppen in Kroatien
Militärbefehlshaber Südost
Deutscher Bevollmächtigter General in Kroatien
Deutscher Bevollmächtigter General in Albanien
Befehlshaber Syrmien
HSSPF Kroatien and its predecessors
HSSPF Serbien and its predecessors
Generalkommandos (Corps commands - total of 12)

In continuous research from 1977-94, I reviewed every roll of microfilmed records belonging to these commands and took notes on every unit mentioned, even the very smallest one (nearly 10,000 in all). So, if this unit existed, it must have been known to the Germans by some other name.

--Larry


Hi Larry!

Check this link - viewtopic.php?t=29450

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Post by Larry D. » 14 Jan 2006 23:29

Hi Mark!

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, I can't understand it. Someone translated into English using an on-line translator and it makes no sense, at least not to me. Perhaps some others will be able to figure out what it says.

Also, I did not notice an source citations, primary or secondary. If it really existed, then it might have been part of the RSK. But the German records are full of details on the RSK and I recall no unit by that name.

Cheers,

--Larry

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ViKinG
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Post by ViKinG » 15 Jan 2006 01:21

Thanks guys!

So I think it is safe to say that these SS 'divisions' need not be mentioned when making a list of official SS divisions.
I appreciate all the help.

Luc

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Harro
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Post by Harro » 15 Jan 2006 10:25

Marc Rikmenspoel wrote:Timo mentions the cover name used, "SS-Panzer Reg. 26 Reichsmarschall." I believe this was put in place after the idea had been raised, and turned down, of creating the SS-Division Reichsmarschall. The title idea was still there, and was used in this deception ploy.

That's very interesting. Thank you Marc!

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Re: Waffen-SS Information needed on units

Post by Germanicus » 09 May 2014 07:20

The bundesarchiv states the following as planned SS-Division's ... the above are regularly quoted however the following in bold have rarely if ever had information put forward about them.

N 756/212

Verschiedene ungeklärte, geplante oder kurzlebige Divisionen der Waffen-SS

Enthält u.a.:
SS-Division "Wallenstein", SS-Division "Schwedt/Oder", SS-Panzer-Division "Reichsmarschall"
SS-Division "Waränger", SS-Division "Dietrich von Bern", SS-Gebirgs-Division "Andreas Hofer"
Ostafrikanische mohamedanische Division der SS, Ost-Muselmanische SS- und Polizei-Division

http://www.argus.bundesarchiv.de/N756-3 ... 3c4d8dbfc9

The Ost-Muselmanische SS is touched on below however not with 'und Polizei-Division' added.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=198861

Most respectfully

Mark

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Re: Waffen-SS Information needed on units

Post by Inselaffe » 09 May 2014 09:24

Hello,

A minor aside/addition as its not been mentioned. 44.SS-Panzer-Division - "Wallenstein" (regardless of its existing or not) would almost certainly have been named after the Imperial General Wallenstein of Thirty Years War fame who was strongly associated with Bohemia, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallenstein

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