Repatrition of russians in German service

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
Arto O
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Repatrition of russians in German service

Postby Arto O » 04 Jul 2017 03:38

Hi,
As it is well known that hundred of thousands, even a million?, Soviet Union citizens served in German armed forces. From estonians, cossacks, tartars, russians etc etc. When the war finished many of them surrendered to americans and british. Did they knew that western allies wil repatriate them back to Soviet Union, and sure death or gulaks, because of agrement made between western allies and Stalin in Yalta(?).
thanks
Arto

Art
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Re: Repatrition of russians in German service

Postby Art » 04 Jul 2017 16:09

1. Repatriation from Western Europe (including repatriation of collaborators) started already in late 1944.
2. Repatriation was mandatory only for pre-1939 Soviet citizens, and even to regard to them it was not a universal practice.
3. Contrary to a common cold war literature (Tolstoy etc) a usual penalty for repatriated collaborators was 6 years of settlement in places like Kazakhstan and Siberia. Fewer were sentenced to custody and some lucky ones (from Baltics or Moldavia) - simply released.

Arto O
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Re: Repatrition of russians in German service

Postby Arto O » 06 Jul 2017 03:16

Thanks Art,
1. Additional question: if the repatrition started already late 1944, how they were sent to Soviet Union? Europe was still with two fronts. In ship convoys, how?
2. So it was not so severe then. And after 6 years in settlements, were they let free and incorparate in the normal life?

But my main question is still open. When still in service with german armed forces, or at the moment when surrending to western allies, did they knew that they will be sended back to Soviet Union, or did they had an illusion to get free and maybe stay in the country were the surrender happaned, or even dream to immigrate to United States?

thanks
Arto

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Re: Repatrition of russians in German service

Postby zaptiè » 06 Jul 2017 10:38

many non soviets like russian emigrees after civil war was also transeretet to soviets. The ex zarists officers whwrw all killed. baltics ( non soviets in 1939 )and generally also Ukrains not consigned . Also White russians from China ( mostly civilians)where rempatried against her wills

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Re: Repatrition of russians in German service

Postby Art » 06 Jul 2017 14:48

Arto O wrote:1. Additional question: if the repatrition started already late 1944, how they were sent to Soviet Union? Europe was still with two fronts. In ship convoys, how?

To give an example: according to Zemskov two ships with about 10000 POWs captured in France were sent from Britain on 31 October 1944 and arrived to Murmansk on 6 November.
2. So it was not so severe then. And after 6 years in settlements, were they let free and incorparate in the normal life?

148 000 (in round numbers) Wehrmacht collaborators were sentenced to settlement after the war, about 93 000 released in 1951-52 after the term ended. On 1.1.53 about 40 000 were still on settlement, and about 16 000 were arrested or sentenced.

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WAR LORD
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Re: Repatrition of russians in German service

Postby WAR LORD » 06 Jul 2017 19:43

The British hand over of Soviet prisoners in Austria
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Re: Repatrition of russians in German service

Postby Arto O » 09 Jul 2017 02:53

Thanks Zaptie, Art and WAR LORD,
Very interesting information Art, especially the amounts. I never expected as much as 10 000 being repatriated at end of 1944. Okei, we know that some managed to avoid the repatriation, like some ukrainians/galizians from 14th SS division as they were declared being polish. Some Latvians made they way to Sweden, if I remember well. And also many estonians, who even later served as guardians during the Nurenberg trials.
I remember to see a picture in AHF of azerbaidzanis celebration a meeting(?) in West Germany somewhere in 1950s. I wonder how they managed to stay there.
To Art, the amounts you wrote in settlements after the war, does this include the cossacks? Because I think that Stalin punished especially them, like also Crimean tatars and Kalmucks.
Thanks
Arto

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Re: Repatrition of russians in German service

Postby Art » 10 Jul 2017 18:18

According to Zemskov from incomplete sample data available in 1949 out of 76 425 collaborationist:
36 259 were Russians
15 140 Ukrainains
4325 Belorussians
2806 - Georgians
2766 Uzbeks
2560 Armenians
2122 Kazakhs
1760 Tatars
1476 Azeris
1358 Germans
etc etc
The number of people in 1945 who really believed that Cossacks were a separate nationality was about 50, half of them Nazi Racial doctrines and another half - Cossack separatists. Pretty every mainstream book of either Imperial or Soviet period called them Russians.

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Re: Repatrition of russians in German service

Postby George Lepre » 11 Jul 2017 01:43

Great material, Art. Thank you.

George

Arto O
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Re: Repatrition of russians in German service

Postby Arto O » 11 Jul 2017 20:39

Yes I agree. Thanks a lot for this very interesting information.
with best regards
Arto

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Re: Repatrition of russians in German service

Postby David Thompson » 12 Jul 2017 19:00

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WAR LORD
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Re: Repatrition of russians in German service

Postby WAR LORD » 12 Jul 2017 20:58

These are from the Christopher Ailsby Historical Archives.

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Re: Repatrition of Russians POWs from USA

Postby ROA_memoirs » 09 Oct 2017 23:52

Hello,
Any info, rather than the usual 2-3 books on the topic, about how the Russian POWs got the USA and how they were repatriated from the USA, and the actual numbers? arriving, suicide, departing? Which USArmy units were involved?
TIA

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Steve
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Re: Repatrition of russians in German service

Postby Steve » 12 Oct 2017 16:43

There seems to be general agreement that the number of Soviet volunteers serving in some form or other with the Germans was in the region of 800.000. “Art” states that approximately 148,000 were sentenced to resettlement. This presumably leaves about 650,000 who were not sentenced to resettlement and surely only a small proportion of them stayed in the west. Since the fall of the USSR has any statistical information emerged (for example how many were fairly quickly released) that sheds light on their fate?

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Re: Repatrition of russians in German service

Postby ROA_memoirs » 15 Oct 2017 06:40

http://www.capitalcentury.com/1945.html
And from Moscow, Ambassador Averell Harriman was reporting that trainloads of Russian POWs returned every day from Europe -- and every deserter was summarily shot.

Still, Acting Secretary of State Joseph Grew on July 11 signed the order to send the Russians back. Soviet cooperation, it was believed, would prove necessary to remake the face of postwar Europe.

Besides, the Soviets would shortly invade Manchuria and take possession of American POWs held by the Japanese. Reprisals were best avoided.

The remaining Russian POWs were kept under 24-hour suicide watch at Dix, They lost their shoelaces, knives, forks, bed frames, belts and suspenders. They stayed on through July and August, unaware what their fate might be.

There were 153 of them now, since three had died and nine were added to their ranks from other POW camps. Seven lucky prisoners were able to prove they were not, in fact, Soviet citizens, and avoided repatriation.

The POWs' final departure was kept top secret and never reported in any newspaper. Declassified documents show that they shipped out on Aug, 31, acting "docile," and were turned over to Soviet authorities at Hof in Eastern Germany.

From there, the 153 POWs of Fort Dix disappeared into a void.

Their ultimate fate is unknown. Perhaps the answer still lies somewhere in the archives of the Soviet prison system, along with the names of millions other vanished victims of the Stalin terror.


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