Hello
On the book "Estonian freedomfighters" by Voitleja foundation pg. 130, I have found the following names (I have checked already on http://www.okupatsioon.ee/nimekirjad)
Hptm Triik (Ludwig?)
Ltn Rosenberg (??)
Ltn Raudsepp (Rudolf?)
Ltn Fisker (Ralf?)
Ltn Amber (probably Ambre - Ilmar?)
Ltn (or Hptm) Metsakond (Verner Adolf?)
They were transferred to Estnische SS-Frew.-Legion on late october 1942.
I'd need to know more infos about them BEFORE the transfer to the Legion (they come from Kiev, probably fm 2 & 3/PB 33 - ex PB "Ostland").
Many thks
Max
Estonian officiers
Hi Max,
I just stumbled into this site. It's in Estonian, but anyway there are photo's on PB Ostland.
http://www.hot.ee/fone/ostland.htm
Gertjan
I just stumbled into this site. It's in Estonian, but anyway there are photo's on PB Ostland.
http://www.hot.ee/fone/ostland.htm
Gertjan
Verner-Adolf Metsakond served as a Lieutenant in the Estonian Army before WW-2. After that he could have served with PB 'Ostland' for sure, don't have any info on that. I only have some info about his service with the Waffen-SS.
Ln. Rosenberg could be Valter Rosenberg, he ended up as a Waffen-Untersturmführer der SS.
Hptm. Triik was definitely Ludvig Triik, Waffen-Hstuf der Waffen-SS.
Sorry, I don't have anything on Raudsepp, Amber or Fisker.
Greetings,
Mike
Ln. Rosenberg could be Valter Rosenberg, he ended up as a Waffen-Untersturmführer der SS.
Hptm. Triik was definitely Ludvig Triik, Waffen-Hstuf der Waffen-SS.
Sorry, I don't have anything on Raudsepp, Amber or Fisker.
Greetings,
Mike
Hi Mike
Thks fr yr infos.
All of them probably were transferred into Estnische SS-Freiw.-Btn "Narwa" or in another Btn of Estnische SS-Legion.
Apart fm Rosemberg (perhaps so, perhaps not), all of them seems "pure" estonians (Rosemberg maybe a volksdeutsche?).
I suppose that when PB "Ostland" was disbanded (beginnig fm late 1942 till October 1943), "pure" estonians were transferred to the Estnische Legion; instead latvian-volksdeutsche fm the 1/Ostland formed the Polizei-Schutzen-Kp. "Rovno" and estonian-volksdeutsche fm 2 & 3/Ostland formed the Polizei-Schutzen-Kp "Kiev".
This is an hypotesis needing confirmation....
Max
Thks fr yr infos.
All of them probably were transferred into Estnische SS-Freiw.-Btn "Narwa" or in another Btn of Estnische SS-Legion.
Apart fm Rosemberg (perhaps so, perhaps not), all of them seems "pure" estonians (Rosemberg maybe a volksdeutsche?).
I suppose that when PB "Ostland" was disbanded (beginnig fm late 1942 till October 1943), "pure" estonians were transferred to the Estnische Legion; instead latvian-volksdeutsche fm the 1/Ostland formed the Polizei-Schutzen-Kp. "Rovno" and estonian-volksdeutsche fm 2 & 3/Ostland formed the Polizei-Schutzen-Kp "Kiev".
This is an hypotesis needing confirmation....
Max
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Arensburger
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About Valter Rosengerg - After courses in the Bad Tölz Sept.43, 10 officers from bat. Narwa was dispatched to headquarters of II Panzercorps in Zagreb. Div. Wiking belongs into this corp at this time. Comm. of II Panzercorps was interested do use Estonian officers in the other units of corps in Yugoslavia. All officers wrote a application, they want back to East Front and bat. Narwa. Only Rosenberg gave acceptation do serve in the unit, being obedient to headquarters of II Panzercorps. He perish in Yugoslavia Nov. 1943.
Raudsepp was later teacher in the officer school of Neveklau (near Beneschau today Czech rep.). Estonian courses of this school were in the castle of Tloskau.
Captain Ludvig Triik was in Estonian Army (before the war) commander of 2. company Single Infantry Battalion "Kalevi".
Raudsepp was later teacher in the officer school of Neveklau (near Beneschau today Czech rep.). Estonian courses of this school were in the castle of Tloskau.
Captain Ludvig Triik was in Estonian Army (before the war) commander of 2. company Single Infantry Battalion "Kalevi".
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Arensburger
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Commander of SS-Waffen Nachschubstruppe 20 Waffen-Haupsturmführer Adolf Verner Metsakond was murdered by Czech red partisans 09.05.1945 in Bolesval.Mikedc wrote:Verner-Adolf Metsakond served as a Lieutenant in the Estonian Army before WW-2. After that he could have served with PB 'Ostland' for sure, don't have any info on that. I only have some info about his service with the Waffen-SS.
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George Lepre
- Host - Foreign volunteers section
- Posts: 769
- Joined: 13 Aug 2002, 22:39
- Location: United States
Hi All -
You guys have been posting some great information in this thread. Keep up the good work!
A question: while we're on the subject of Estonian SS officers, have any of you heard of an alleged SS officer named August KUKLANE (Born 5. Jul 1923 in Estonia - Died 3 Mar 2006 in the USA)? When he was alive, he stated that he attended JS Bad Tölz. Here is a link to an interview he gave to a (revisionist) publication:
http://www.destfor.de/defor_root/defor_ ... august.htm
I read the interview and from what it says, the facts about his military service do not sound right, at least to me.
What do you think?
Best regards,
George
You guys have been posting some great information in this thread. Keep up the good work!
A question: while we're on the subject of Estonian SS officers, have any of you heard of an alleged SS officer named August KUKLANE (Born 5. Jul 1923 in Estonia - Died 3 Mar 2006 in the USA)? When he was alive, he stated that he attended JS Bad Tölz. Here is a link to an interview he gave to a (revisionist) publication:
http://www.destfor.de/defor_root/defor_ ... august.htm
I read the interview and from what it says, the facts about his military service do not sound right, at least to me.
What do you think?
Best regards,
George
Thanks for the link George - Interesting read!
There are some errors in the text, for example did Riipalu never commanded "Narwa" btl - he was first commander of I./WGR 45 and then later commander of the regiment - WGR 45. I guess Kuklane served in II./WGR 45 at the Narva front. I looked for his name in Moores "Führerliste", but couldnt find it - I also checked the book about Estonian SS-officers by the estonian historian Leo Tammiksaar, but couldnt find his name in it aswell. Ofcourse its possible that he served as an officer - the works of Moore and Tammiksaar are not 100% complete.
Heres some information about the estonians that Carnaro was looking for.
Ustuf Ralf Fisker, served as OO in SS-Pz.Gr.Btl "Narwa". Born 9/7 1916 in Tallinn and died 24/8 43 in Ukraina.
Hstuf Ludwig Triik served as Kdr II./WGR 45. Born 5/3 1898 in Tallinn and died 19/4 1970.
/PK
There are some errors in the text, for example did Riipalu never commanded "Narwa" btl - he was first commander of I./WGR 45 and then later commander of the regiment - WGR 45. I guess Kuklane served in II./WGR 45 at the Narva front. I looked for his name in Moores "Führerliste", but couldnt find it - I also checked the book about Estonian SS-officers by the estonian historian Leo Tammiksaar, but couldnt find his name in it aswell. Ofcourse its possible that he served as an officer - the works of Moore and Tammiksaar are not 100% complete.
Heres some information about the estonians that Carnaro was looking for.
Ustuf Ralf Fisker, served as OO in SS-Pz.Gr.Btl "Narwa". Born 9/7 1916 in Tallinn and died 24/8 43 in Ukraina.
Hstuf Ludwig Triik served as Kdr II./WGR 45. Born 5/3 1898 in Tallinn and died 19/4 1970.
/PK
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George Lepre
- Host - Foreign volunteers section
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- Joined: 13 Aug 2002, 22:39
- Location: United States
Hi PK -
Thanks for the information.
Several friends and I met Kuklane in the early 1990s. He provided few exact details regarding his service.
Here are some more errors I found:
JS Bad Tölz: As we all know, not every SS officer's file survived the war. But I have found that most if not all of the men who attended officer courses at Tölz, Braunschweig, Klagenfurt, usw. are included on various lists that are on file at the BDC. Kuklane is not listed.
"Narwa Bataillon": The Narwa Bataillon was detached from the Estonian SS Legion in March 1943 (before Kuklane even joined the German military) and fought in Ukraine within the Wiking Division. When the survivors returned to the Estonian Division in early 1944, they became the cadre of SS-Fusilier Btl. 20 and were NOT integrated into any of the Estonian Division's three infantry regiments (45, 46, 47).
The article continues: "Fearful of the occupier's revenge, Kuklane hid his Waffen SS documents and his Solbuch (sic), a soldier's identification book, on a farm in Neuhammer am Kweiss (sic) in Schleswig-Holstein."
Truppenübungsplatz Neuhammer am Queiss was in Silesia (today: Poland), not Schleswig-Holstein, which is in northern Germany. Moreover, Neuhammer had already fallen to the Russians in February 1945.
I now believe that Kuklane was not being truthful about his wartime service. It is difficult to imagine that an Estonian of Jahrgang 1923 would not be called up into some kind of military service, but Kuklane does not appear to be who he claimed he was.
Does anyone else have any opinions on this? Other sources?
Best regards,
George
Thanks for the information.
Several friends and I met Kuklane in the early 1990s. He provided few exact details regarding his service.
Here are some more errors I found:
JS Bad Tölz: As we all know, not every SS officer's file survived the war. But I have found that most if not all of the men who attended officer courses at Tölz, Braunschweig, Klagenfurt, usw. are included on various lists that are on file at the BDC. Kuklane is not listed.
"Narwa Bataillon": The Narwa Bataillon was detached from the Estonian SS Legion in March 1943 (before Kuklane even joined the German military) and fought in Ukraine within the Wiking Division. When the survivors returned to the Estonian Division in early 1944, they became the cadre of SS-Fusilier Btl. 20 and were NOT integrated into any of the Estonian Division's three infantry regiments (45, 46, 47).
The article continues: "Fearful of the occupier's revenge, Kuklane hid his Waffen SS documents and his Solbuch (sic), a soldier's identification book, on a farm in Neuhammer am Kweiss (sic) in Schleswig-Holstein."
Truppenübungsplatz Neuhammer am Queiss was in Silesia (today: Poland), not Schleswig-Holstein, which is in northern Germany. Moreover, Neuhammer had already fallen to the Russians in February 1945.
I now believe that Kuklane was not being truthful about his wartime service. It is difficult to imagine that an Estonian of Jahrgang 1923 would not be called up into some kind of military service, but Kuklane does not appear to be who he claimed he was.
Does anyone else have any opinions on this? Other sources?
Best regards,
George
Hello George!
The estonian division was reorganized at Neuhammer after the heavy battles at Narva and Tartu - why should he hid his documents at Neuhammer when his Rgt left this trainingarea to go into battle with the russians in Schleichen? I know that several estonians hid and destroyed their documents in Czechia, because the partisans in Czechia was killing germans/estonians (for example, Stubaf Paul Maitla). It seems that Kuklane lied about his service, or maybe his memory was failing?
Regards
Petter (PK)
The estonian division was reorganized at Neuhammer after the heavy battles at Narva and Tartu - why should he hid his documents at Neuhammer when his Rgt left this trainingarea to go into battle with the russians in Schleichen? I know that several estonians hid and destroyed their documents in Czechia, because the partisans in Czechia was killing germans/estonians (for example, Stubaf Paul Maitla). It seems that Kuklane lied about his service, or maybe his memory was failing?
Regards
Petter (PK)
Hello George,
We just do our best, that's the least we can do.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
The link you gave us was pretty interesting to read but I also don't believe to much from the things Kuklane is telling us. I must agree with Petter that he either lied about it all or that his memory was failing real bad.
Anyway, it was pretty interesting stuff to read.
Greetings,
Mike
We just do our best, that's the least we can do.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
The link you gave us was pretty interesting to read but I also don't believe to much from the things Kuklane is telling us. I must agree with Petter that he either lied about it all or that his memory was failing real bad.
Anyway, it was pretty interesting stuff to read.
Greetings,
Mike