Estonian officiers

[Arensburger]

Ltn Amber (probably Ambre - Ilmar?)

I do not think there is some business with Ilmar Ambre, because in my mind he was not SS officer at all. Like I remember he perish as lieutenant somewhere 1943/44.
In this case I think we have SS-Pz.Gr.Btl "Narwa" officer Ustuf Amberg Heino Heinrich born 08.03.1914 (I don't know was he born in Tartu, but he grow up there, 1932 he was graduated in Hugo Treffner Grammar School), perish in Ukraine 04.Sept.1943.

[Arensburger]

About Valter Rosengerg - ......... He perish in Yugoslavia Nov. 1943

Ustuf Valter Rosenberg born 01.March 1917 Tallinn, perish 25.Jan.1944 Yugoslavia

[Mikedc]

Hey Arensberger,

Thanks for posting this great info. You even helped me already with some good info because I also didn't have everything written down in this nice thread.

I've to agree with George on this one: You guys have been posting some great information in this thread. Keep up the good work!
So just let's try to do that here.

Greetings,
Mike

[Arensburger]

About Valter Rosengerg - After courses in the Bad Tölz Sept.43, 10 officers from bat. Narwa was dispatched to headquarters of II Panzercorps in Zagreb. Div. Wiking belongs into this corp at this time.

NB! Actually these men were send to headquoters of 2. Panzer-Armee and asked do serve in units belonged to headquoters of III SS Panzerkorps (Germanisches).

[George Lepre]

Hi Everyone -

Arensburger's post was of great interest to me. He stated that ten officers from Bataillon "Narwa" were sent to Bad Tölz. Does anyone have a complete list of these men?

I recently found two lists of Estonian SS officers in the BDC microfilms maintained by the National Archives II. One list is dated 21 October 1944 and contains the names of the Estonians who attended the "1. Kriegs-Waffen-Junkerlehrgang (estn. und lett.)" which was held at SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Schule Kienschlag (exact dates of the course are not provided). I then located a second list that calls the course the "1. Kriegs-Waffen-Junkerlehrgang (estn.)." Most of the men on the list have Estonian names. There are also a few Latvians.

Regarding August Kuklane: All of the men on the lists I found are older than Kuklane and it seems that they held ranks of lieutenant or captain in the pre-war Estonian army. Thus it would be logical that they would be selected to attend officer training before him, as they outranked him or had more seniority. Unless he was one of the ten men selected from Bataillon Narwa to attend JS Bad Tölz, it would appear that his statements are false. Perhaps the only way we can learn for sure is to send an inquiry to the Deutsche Diensstelle (WASt).

Best regards,

George

[ckuklane]

I happen to be August's Daughter-in-law. I regularly pop our last name into Google because you never know when something may pop up from August's service days.

I came upon this forum yesterday. I spoke to my husband who is August's son and he and I thought we should speak for August as he can not.

I can assure you he was not a liar. He was a most caring and generous man. He spoke with a very thick accent and was also extremely hard of hearing. He would also answer questions completely incorrectly because he thought we asked something completely different. This is something that was quite a problem in his later years. For instance, if he answered the phone and it was someone selling something. He would say Ja, Ja as in Yes, Yes alot. He didn't even realize that he may be actually buying a service or something. For example, I would call to talk to my husband and all that he would understand is my husband's name and would just say call back. I would really have to talk extremely loud, bordering on screaming, for him to even know it was me.

Because of his horrible hearing and answering when only hearing one word of a question and assuming the rest, this could be the reason for things maybe not adding up.

I am not sure exactly what statements are "off" in the article and would appreciate if someone could respond with those. I would like to research them myself with his Widow, and family that is still in Estonia. It seems there is a wealth of information on the web but I would have no idea where to look. We do have many books that August collected and we may be able to research those as well.

I look forward to hearing a response and would love a point by point analysis of what does not add up. I honestly do not know much about the history so please be as basic as you can so I can try to research any discrepancies.

Thank you all for your time.

We would like to get to the bottom of any questions that the article brought up.

C.

[George Lepre]

Hello!

The place to look is the Deutsche Dienststelle in Berlin. This is the former Wehrmachts- Auskunftstelle and it contains information on millions of men who served in the German armed forces during the Second World War (nicht nur Gefallenen!). Here's the address:

Deutsche Dienststelle
Eichborndamm 179
D-13403 Berlin
Germany

Simply have his widow write to this office and ask for copies of any documents the institution may have regarding August's military service. Provide his full name and date/place of birth so they can find his record.

There is an article on the web in which August discussed his comings and goings during the Second World War. Here it is:

http://www.destfor.de/defor_root/defor_ ... august.htm

Good luck in your research!

[ckuklane]

Yes, I have seen the article and it seems to have raised some questions about August's truthfullness. I was wondering exactly what is "off" in his statements because I would like find out if he was just misunderstood or misquoted.

Thank you for the information and I will write to see if they have anything on file.

Thanks again.
C.

[George Lepre]

Hello C. -

Here are the "points of contention" (see the article I cited above):

A. Kuklane attending Junderschule Bad Tölz: Not every SS officer's personnel file survived the war. But I have found that most if not all of the men who attended officer training courses at Bad Tölz, Braunschweig, Klagenfurt, etc. are included on various lists that are on file at the former Berlin Document Center (now BA in Berlin). Kuklane is not listed. Also, a book about Estonian SS-officers was published by the Estonian historian Leo Tammiksaar, but Kuklane is not listed. Promotion lists (SS-Veränderungsblätter) were published periodically and survived the war. Kuklane claimed that he rose to the rank of captain, but there is no mention of anyone named Kuklane being promoted to any officer rank.

A. Kuklane serving in the "Narwa Bataillon": The Narwa Bataillon was detached from the Estonian SS Legion in March 1943 (before Kuklane even joined the German military) and fought in Ukraine within the Wiking Division. When the survivors returned to the Estonian SS-Division in early 1944, they became the cadre of SS-Fusilier Btl. 20 and were NOT integrated into any of the Estonian Division's three infantry regiments (45, 46, 47). Harald Riipalu never commanded this unit.

A quote from the article: "Fearful of the occupier's revenge, Kuklane hid his Waffen SS documents and his Solbuch (sic), a soldier's identification book, on a farm in Neuhammer am Kweiss (sic) in Schleswig-Holstein."
Truppenübungsplatz Neuhammer am Queiss was in Silesia (today: Poland), not Schleswig-Holstein, which is in northern Germany. Moreover, Neuhammer had already fallen to the Russians in February 1945.

I hope this information is useful. Please let us know what information the Deutsche Dienststelle sends you. It might very well solve the mystery.

Best,

George

[ckuklane]

Thank you so much for the information. I will question his friends that are still living.....one friend from elementary school.

I will also try to request the information using the address you had given me.

I will be back to let you know anything I find out.

Thanks again.
C.

[Arensburger]

In this case I think we have SS-Pz.Gr.Btl "Narwa" officer Ustuf Amberg Heino Heinrich born 08.03.1914 (I don't know was he born in Tartu, but he grow up there, 1932 he was graduated in Hugo Treffner Grammar School), perish in Ukraine 04.Sept.1943.

Das Frankfurter Bataillon. Ltn. Amberg (aus Tartu / Dorpat)

[Ultima]

I need some information to the following persons:

Ustuf? Ring, Harri
Ustuf? Tofer (Toffer), Paul
Hstuf Puusepp
StObJ Olev Elmar Mages

[Ultima]

have someone information about the names of estonian officer at the narwa-bataillon?

[Arensburger]

I need some information to the following persons:
...
Hstuf Puusepp
...

Oskar Puusepp born in 22.02.1898 Viitina (close to Võru) South-Estonia.
During the WWI he study four years in the Russian Military Technical High school of Artillery. At the same time he served, in the rank of Junker, in the central ammunition depot of Russian artillery in Tambov.
In the Russian Civil War he joined Wight Army and fought in general Mamontov´s IV cavalry corps, 48. cavalry regiment. In this force he took apart of reconquest Koslov, Jelets, Voronež, Liski.
1.12.1919 promoted to leutenant. And transferred to the adjutant of commander of artillery of 1. Division. Final post in Russian tsivil war was a officer of 9. batterie in 3. Art.Reg.
Got wounded and typhus in the hospidal of Harkov. But anyway he manage do escape from Red Army captivity and arrived to Estonia.
From 12.04.1920 in Estonian Army.
1921 commander of ammunition depot.
1922 officer in gunsmithery of Est. Army. 1923-24 commander of armoury storehouse on the spot.
1925-26 deputy of commander of artillery department in the accoutre department of Est.Army
1926 graduated in Tallinn Technical University as Inseneur of mechanical engineering.
1927 commander of dept A in the department of armaments of GHQ Est. Army. Promoted to captain.
1929. graduated in University of Liege (Belgium) in the field of aviation engineering.
1931-32 diplomatic post (military) in USA
1933-38 different posts in the department of armamentarium Est.Army
5.03.1938 he leave from Army service.
1941Sept. he join the german Army. East front - commander of 18. company Est. Sicherungsgruppe 184
1943 study in the Bad Tölz
Oct. 1943 commander of 4. company SS armored grenadier battalion called «Narva» and it belonged to the division «Wiking». In the pass through battle of Cherkassy he commanded unit called „Kampfgruppe Puusepp”. This unit was assembled mostly from wounded and sick soldiers, who had keep his motile. In this battle he got wounded.
1944 commander of SS-Genesungskompanie 20
1944-45 Neuhammer - Denmark Odensee and Assen SS-Ausbildungs- und Ersatz Regiment 20 commander of Genesungskompanie.
1952 graduated in Hamburg University – theolog. Later he lives in Australia and USA. He died in USA Portland OR 22.July 1980

[Arensburger]

Hello
On the book "Estonian freedomfighters" by Voitleja foundation pg. 130, I have found the following names
.......
Ltn Fisker (Ralf?)
....

Ostuf. Ralf Fisker born in Tallinn 9.July 1916.
1934 after the graduate France lyceum in Tallinn he was drafted to the 2.battary of I Artillery Group of Estonian Army.
1935-36 Estonian Military School – courses of light artillery
1937 Estonian Military School – courses of officers. Promotion Junker. 2. Battary of III Artillery Group
1939 promotion Lieutenant. Company of searchlight (antiaircraft)
1940 June he ask do discharge from Army. Moved out to Germany. He spoke excellently estonian, german and france languish and also good russian and english.
1941 in Germany he join the „Battalion Ostland”
1942 Estonian SS Legion,
1942-43 antitank defense school in Hilversum Holland.
1943 commander of antitank platoon (PAK Zug) SS-Panzergrenadier Bataillon “Narwa”
KIA 24.Aug. 1943
He was a reckless man. In the battles of Izum cannons of his platoon imperturbably destroyed lots and lots of Russian tanks.
At the time of retreat to Hadnitsa men from FLAK Zug leave two flak cannons behind the Russians line. Ralf Fisker ordered the Light Reconnaissance Tank and at the night went behind the Russians line and brings those cannons back.
At the time of defense battles by Hadnitsa, one night at 23.00 russians manage do break trough between the lines of 1. company of „Narwa” and reg. „Germania”. They turn to the rear of „Narwa”s 3.company and occupy village of Hadnitsa. Ostuf Ralf Fiskar rapidly collect the kampfgruppe (men from drumlin and other rear units, IG Zug, one german granatenferfer team and 2 Tiger tanks) and they took a village back and russians were taken back to his lines. In this battle Ostuf Ralf Fiskar was badly wounded and he died shortly after the battle in feldhospidal.