American volunteers

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
debendevan
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Re: Flemish American born volunteer

Post by debendevan » 17 Jun 2008 12:40

GNK wrote:I have a death notice of a Flemish SS Volunteer who was born in East-Moline USA. He died on the Eastern front on 07/02/1943.
Hello GNK,

As a Flemish-American myself and with a keen interest in history, I would be thrilled, pleased and grateful if you could either post the death card or e-mail a scan to me. Would that be possible?

Met Vlaamse groeten (vanuit Chicago),

debendevan@hotmail.com

debendevan
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Re: American volunteers

Post by debendevan » 19 Jun 2008 03:39

Just FYI, there is apparently another American - this one of German ancestry, who joined the "Legion Wallone". cf "For Rex and For Belgium" (by Eddy de Bruyne and Marc Rikmenspoel; www.helion.co.uk , p. 215, Appendix I: Fig. 1.6 ):

"Bueter, William-Thomas, ne a Tarenton [Trenton, NJ?] (U.S.A.), 25-9-1920, noyauteur, dom. a Courcelles, rue Paul Pastur, 73, Americain, Legion Wallonne, A.M. Charleroi, I.F."

That same page says:
"The following nationalities were represented in the Legion Wallonie 1941-45:
Belgium (both Walloons and Flemings), France, Monaco (one individual), White Russians (a few dozen), Finland (one), Poland, Rumania, Switzerland (three individuals), Italy, U.S.A. (one individual), Spain, Hungary, Czechoslavakia, Sweden (one) amd one Jew (10 March 1942 contingent - discovered when transfering to the Waffen SS and sent back to Belgium)."

Lots of interesting stuff here to explore.

debendevan
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Re: American volunteers

Post by debendevan » 19 Jun 2008 04:21

August 26, 1993:

Man loses U.S. citizenship for wartime Nazi activities

A U.S.-born citizen was stripped of his U.S. citizenship yesterday for serving as a guard in three Nazi death camps and was ordered to leave the country in 60 days.

It was believed to be the first time a U.S. citizen has been ordered deported for World War II Nazi activities. While 46 people have been denaturalized for aiding the enemy, they were all born in other countries.

Nikolaus Schiffer, 74, a retired baker born in Philadelphia and now living in New Ringgold, Pa., was not charged with any specific crimes in connection with his participation in the Waffen SS, the elite branch of the German army known for its racial purity and loyalty to Adolf Hitler.

But after hearing testimony in March in the nonjury trial in Easton, Pa., including the testimony of concentration-camp survivors, U.S. District Judge Franklin Van Antwerpen ruled that Schiffer had lost his U.S. citizenship when he joined the Romanian Army and the SS and pledged allegiance to Hitler. He subsequently regained it illegally, the judge ruled.

Schiffer went to Romania as a child and grew up there. The Justice Department had contended that he joined the Romanian Army when that nation was allied with Nazi Germany. In July 1943, he joined the Waffen SS.

The judge ruled that after the war, Schiffer illegally got his U.S. citizenship back when he failed to tell U.S. officials that he had been arrested as a war-crimes suspect.

The case was brought by the Justice Department's Office of Special Investigations, set up in 1979 to prosecute suspected Nazis.

Copyright (c) 1993 Seattle Times Company, All Rights Reserved.

In United States v. Schiffer, 831 F. Supp. 1166 (E.D. Pa. 1993), aff'd without opinion, 31 F.3d 1175 (3rd Cir. 1994), the government brought a denaturalization action against Nikolaus Schiffer, a U.S.-born citizen who had previously been expatriated for his service as a member of the Romanian army and a guard at concentration camps during World War II, but who subsequently and successfully sought naturalization. Schiffer was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, to non-citizen parents in 1919, but in 1920 he moved with his parents to Moravitz, Romania, where he maintained dual U.S. and Romanian citizenship as a minor. In 1940, he voluntarily presented himself for registration for the Romanian Army, even though Romania did not permit United States citizens bearing dual Romanian citizenship to serve in the Romanian Army. In 1941, he reported for basic training for Romanian Army service and, like his fellow soldiers, swore an oath of allegiance to the Romanian monarch, King Carol II. That December, Romania declared war on the United States. The defendant served in the Romanian Army until 1943. See generally 831 F. Supp. at 1169-71. In 1943, he volunteered to serve in the Waffen-SS Totenkopfsturmbann (Death's Head Battalion), an elite Nazi force, and like his fellow SS members, swore an oath of allegiance to Adolf Hitler. In that capacity, the defendant served as a concentration camp guard until 1945. As a concentration camp guard, he never requested a transfer or refused any assignment. Id. at 1175-76. In 1945, he was captured and held by U.S. Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. The next year, he was discharged as a prisoner of war and arrested by U.S. authorities as a suspected war criminal. He was released in 1947. Id. at 1180-81. In 1952, the State Department executed a certificate of loss of citizenship to the defendant. The next year, he obtained an immigrant visa and was admitted to the United States accordingly. Id. at 1183-84. In 1958, he applied for naturalization. His application failed to disclose fully, however, his prior service and detention as a suspected war criminal. His naturalization application was approved on the basis of his misrepresentations, and a federal district court issued the defendant a certificate of naturalization. Id. at 1184-85.

In 1993, the same district court granted the government's request for an order canceling Schiffer's 1958 naturalization certificate. Id. at 1206. The court reasoned that the defendant, a natural born U.S. citizen, had relinquished his citizenship and then procured his naturalization through misrepresentation. Notably, the court justified its expatriation determination by noting that an intention to renounce U.S. citizenship could easily be inferred from the defendant's service in a hostile foreign army at war with the United States:

The Third Circuit took a similar view of service in a hostile foreign army in Breyer v. Meissner, 214 F.3d 416 (3rd Cir. 2000). Like Schiffer, Johann Breyer later joined the Death's Head Battalion during World War II. Id. at 418-19. The court first determined that Johann Breyer was entitled to citizenship at birth. Although he was born in Czechoslovakia in 1925, his mother was an American citizen. At the time, federal law granted citizenship at birth to children born abroad to fathers who are American citizens, but not to children born abroad to foreign fathers and mothers who are citizens of the United States. The court held the law unconstitutional and concluded that Breyer was entitled to citizenship at birth. Id. at 429. The court then remanded the case back to the district court to determine whether Breyer remained a U.S. citizen, in light of his activities during World War II. In doing so, the court expressly pointed out that Breyer's decision to join the Death's Head Battalion could constitute a renunciation of American citizenship, regardless of whether he was even aware of his entitlement to U.S. citizenship at the time:

[T]he knowing commitment made by a member of the Death's Head Battalion, during a period when Germany was at war with the United States, demonstrates a loyalty to the policies of Nazi Germany that is wholly inconsistent with American citizenship. Although when he took his oath of allegiance first to the Waffen SS and then to the Death's Head Battalion, Johann Breyer was not aware of his right to American citizenship, one could conclude that he voluntarily made a commitment that, had he known of this right, clearly would have repudiated it. . . . Johann Breyer may have made such a disclaimer of allegiance to the United States by a voluntary enlistment in the Waffen SS and then again in the Death's Head Battalion.

See also United States v. Ciurinskas, 148 F.3d 729, 734 (7th Cir. 1998) (holding that an individual who had served in the German Order Police during World War II had done so voluntarily, where there was no evidence that he had been conscripted, and where members of his battalion were permanently released from service upon a written request); United States v. Stelmokas, 100 F.3d 302, 313 (3rd Cir. 1996) (same).

http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/expatriation.htm

ben haynes
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american ss novels??

Post by ben haynes » 02 Jul 2008 16:36

hello dos anyone know of any novels that has american waffen ss units in it ive got the eagle has flown really good book. regards to all.

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Sturmkreuz
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Re: Flemish American born volunteer

Post by Sturmkreuz » 13 Mar 2009 16:18

debendevan wrote:
GNK wrote:I have a death notice of a Flemish SS Volunteer who was born in East-Moline USA. He died on the Eastern front on 07/02/1943.
Hello GNK,

As a Flemish-American myself and with a keen interest in history, I would be thrilled, pleased and grateful if you could either post the death card or e-mail a scan to me. Would that be possible?

Met Vlaamse groeten (vanuit Chicago),

debendevan@hotmail.com
I don't know if he ever answered but as far as I know there was only one Flemish Volunteer from East-Moline which is

Debrabandere Alfons
Born 10.12.1919
Died: 5.02.1943

Thanks
Regards
Bart

www.vlaamslegioen.com

debendevan
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Re: American volunteers

Post by debendevan » 13 Mar 2009 20:01

Bart,

Dank U wel!

vriendelijke Vlaamse groeten,

De bende van...

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Marcus
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Re: American volunteers

Post by Marcus » 13 Mar 2009 20:49

Please keep it in English, thanks.

/Marcus

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Marcus
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Pierre de la Ney du Vair

Post by Marcus » 29 Jul 2010 20:04

I received the below in response to the brief mention of Pierre de la Ney du Vair at http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=310 and thought I'd share the information with you.
I am Pierre Henri de La Ney, comte du Vair. Before one of my ancestors arrived in the USA, the name -- the real one -- in France was de La Noüe, a name the US immigration authorities could not pronounce and thus made it became de La Ney (instead of de La Noüe). My father -- who you make the mistake of calling Peter Delany -- was a direct descendent of the Counts of Vair of Brittany in France. Hence du Vair is a title which is simply attached, often omitting "Comte du". In Europe, he was called by the name of Pierre Louis de La Ney du Vair. See: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/us ... urces.html That’s all I can say to your errors and omissions as regards his name.

Pierre Louis, my father, was not born in Louisiana. He was born in Holcomb, Mo, close to Arkansas, on February 8, 1907. Unfortunately they did not register births before the year 1910, which you can also verify easily.

In 1944, he joined the Légion des Volontaires Français contre le bolchevisme (LVF) as a « Capitaine » and fought the Red Army on the Easter Front before the French unit became the Division Charlemagne of 7,000 Frenchmen. By order (refusal was not permitted) of the Auswartiges Amt -- the German Foreign Affairs Department -- he was assigned to the non-combat unit in which Germany gathered axis war correspondents -- no doubt because of his extensive linguistic capabilities. It was a regiment called Standarte Kurt Eggers, a regiment named after a famous war correspondent who had been killed. Obviously you also failed to mention these important little facts.

You wrongly refer to Pierre Louis as an American. His French nationality was officially recognized by the French Consulate in Rome (where he lived for eight years starting in January 1926, at age 19). The French draft bureau of Seine 4e. called him to arms, class 1927, but he was excused for studies for his doctorate. The USA has no claim on him as an American.

He was a bright young Frenchman, a rare I.Q. evaluation of 168. His reasoning was as follows :

1. He never understood why the USA would engage itself in a war in Europe. And concluded it it was America seeking world supremacy. Since America clearly was not attacked by any European country. Later one, in December of 1941 the attack upon Pearl Harbor was by Japan, not Europe.

2. Pierre Louis was abhorred by the USA’s alliance with Stalin and atheistic communism who was invading Christian Europe. France, in his mind, would someday deal with Germany politically, as it always had. And Hitler was certainly not going to be there for very long. We lived in Annecy, which was occupied by the Italians, not the Germans, after the debacle of 1940. Pierre Louis used to tease these Italians (he spoke 7 languages currently) with their white feathers in their hats. Harmless people.

3. He was shocked by the German invasion of the U.S.S.R. in 1941.

4. He was even more shocked by the massive US aid to Stalin who was, in his view, the worst of the two European devils and the most dangerous since communism had worldwide ambitions.

Note that many nations -- not allied to Germany -- created anti-bolchevic Legions, including the United Kingdom whose legion was named the British Free Corps. They did not fight FOR Germany, they fought to halt the invasion of Europe by the Red Army which ended up, with US help enslaving Eastern Europe for 55 years. Of course America was never threatened by a communist Red Army. And naturally, you don’t give these explanations !

As a final note, Pierre Louis, my father, considered the US military to be unthinkable murders of innocent civilians, babies, mothers, grand-parents, injured refugees. I refer, of course, to the fact the the US killed far more innocent civilians than military personnel : The massive bombing of cities like Berlin, The firebombing of Plauen, of Dresden (in the arts, the German equivalent of Florence in Italy), the militarity senseless and total destruction of Caen in France, not to mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Even in war, the end never justifies the means. You can easily verify the number of civilians killed the the US military. Oh, but then you didn’t mention that either. Why don’t you tell the whole truth for a change ?
/Marcus

Larry D.
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Re: Pierre de la Ney du Vair

Post by Larry D. » 29 Jul 2010 20:57

After that bombastic, one-sided and opinionated attack on the Allied conduct of World War II, especially the U.S. role, I guess all I can say is:
Delaney was killed in 1945.
- Good riddance.

George Lepre
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Re: Pierre de la Ney du Vair

Post by George Lepre » 30 Jul 2010 15:41

Marcus Wendel wrote:I received the below in response to the brief mention of Pierre de la Ney du Vair at http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=310 and thought I'd share the information with you.
I am Pierre Henri de La Ney, comte du Vair. (...) Pierre Louis, my father, was not born in Louisiana. He was born in Holcomb, Mo, close to Arkansas, on February 8, 1907. (...) You wrongly refer to Pierre Louis as an American. The USA has no claim on him as an American.
/Marcus
If Pierre Louis was born in Missouri, he was a U.S. citizen by birthright. If the French also claim him, then he was a dual citizen. In other words, he was an American whether his son likes it or not.

Ljotrulf
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Re: Pierre de la Ney du Vair

Post by Ljotrulf » 31 Jul 2010 10:22

Larry D. wrote:After that bombastic, one-sided and opinionated attack on the Allied conduct of World War II, especially the U.S. role, I guess all I can say is:
Delaney was killed in 1945.
- Good riddance.
I believe de la Ney du Vair was killed when USAAF aircraft attacked a train packed full of civilian refugees. No doubt this event may have influenced the son's view of the conduct of the US in WW2 (US forces were guilty of atrocities and excesses whether Larry D. likes it or not) but to express the view "good riddance" when refering to the man's father is rather unpleasant, not to say childish.

Larry D.
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Re: Pierre de la Ney du Vair

Post by Larry D. » 31 Jul 2010 12:56

I believe de la Ney du Vair was killed when USAAF aircraft attacked a train packed full of civilian refugees. No doubt this event may have influenced the son's view of the conduct of the US in WW2 (US forces were guilty of atrocities and excesses whether Larry D. likes it or not) but to express the view "good riddance" when refering to the man's father is rather unpleasant, not to say childish.
We sure did, but it was usually unintentional. Ever tried to bomb or strafe a train while trying to determine whether it's full of enemy troops, equipment, munitions or civilians? Your last name suggests Ljotic, so our fathers or grandfathers may have been on opposite sides during the war. If so, your reaction is understandable, just as my reaction was understandable to most Americans, especially those whose family members died trying to liberate Europe from the Nazis and their collaborator pals. Fortunately, those who today share the sentiments of de la Ney du Vair are but a small minority.

Rob - wssob2
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Re: Pierre de la Ney du Vair

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 31 Jul 2010 15:19

The massive bombing of cities like Berlin, The firebombing of Plauen, of Dresden (in the arts, the German equivalent of Florence in Italy), the militarity senseless and total destruction of Caen in France, not to mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around how, if Pierre died in an air attack presumably in the spring of 1945, how he managed to have an opinion about the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki 4 months later...
If Pierre Louis was born in Missouri, he was a U.S. citizen by birthright. If the French also claim him, then he was a dual citizen. In other words, he was an American whether his son likes it or not.
Thanks George I was going to mention the same thing.

I wonder if Pierre was a member of the RNP or other French collaborationist party. Interesting that he joined the LVF so late in the game (the unit was dissoved in Sept. '44) I also if he was one of the influx of Frenchmen who joined Nazi military units when France was liberated.
1. He never understood why the USA would engage itself in a war in Europe.
Guess he wasn't that bright then, or hadn't heard the news that Hitler declared war on the USA.
2. Pierre Louis was abhorred by the USA’s alliance with Stalin and atheistic communism who was invading Christian Europe.
Hitler's invasion, of course, was perfectly OK.
France, in his mind, would someday deal with Germany politically, as it always had.
However, France didn't do a very good job "dealing with" Germany in May 1940.
And Hitler was certainly not going to be there for very long.

Surely a minority opinion in 1940-42.
Pierre Louis used to tease these Italians (he spoke 7 languages currently) with their white feathers in their hats. Harmless people.
I'm sure our Italian friends appreciate Pierre's son's sweeping characterization. :roll:

Note that many nations -- not allied to Germany -- created anti-bolchevic Legions, including the United Kingdom whose legion was named the British Free Corps.


Correction - the Germans created the Legions; the SS specifically the BFC. The UK had nothing to do wit it.
They did not fight FOR Germany, they fought to halt the invasion of Europe by the Red Army which ended up...



with US help enslaving Eastern Europe for 55 years. Of course America was never threatened by a communist Red Army. And naturally, you don’t give these explanations !


yuk. The rest is just neo-fascist rebop. Apparently the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Ljotrulf
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Re: Pierre de la Ney du Vair

Post by Ljotrulf » 31 Jul 2010 18:54

Larry D. wrote:
I believe de la Ney du Vair was killed when USAAF aircraft attacked a train packed full of civilian refugees. No doubt this event may have influenced the son's view of the conduct of the US in WW2 (US forces were guilty of atrocities and excesses whether Larry D. likes it or not) but to express the view "good riddance" when refering to the man's father is rather unpleasant, not to say childish.
We sure did, but it was usually unintentional. Ever tried to bomb or strafe a train while trying to determine whether it's full of enemy troops, equipment, munitions or civilians? Your last name suggests Ljotic, so our fathers or grandfathers may have been on opposite sides during the war. If so, your reaction is understandable, just as my reaction was understandable to most Americans, especially those whose family members died trying to liberate Europe from the Nazis and their collaborator pals. Fortunately, those who today share the sentiments of de la Ney du Vair are but a small minority.
The USAAF, RAF and Soviet Air Force attacked anything that moved in the last days of the war and paid scant regard to whether or not the trains were full of refugees or troops (there are even recorded incidents of hospital trains and civilian treks being attacked). Dresden was certainly attacked by the USAAF and RAF with the intention of causing mass casualties amongst the civilian population; such is the nature of total war.
Ljotrulf is a version of an ancient Scottish name and nothing to do with Ljotic other than a vaguely similar spelling. My relations fought in the British Forces in WW1 and WW2 (for the British that is 1914-1918 and 1939-1945), so my reaction is based on disgust that anyone on this forum would post "good riddance" to another man's father, regardless of political views.

Larry D.
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Re: Pierre de la Ney du Vair

Post by Larry D. » 31 Jul 2010 20:02

If you are a Scot, then your apparent support of "the dark side" is somewhat surprising. However your holier than thou armchair condescensions about the Allied conduct of the war makes me want to heave, so I shall leave you to stew in your juices. BTW, if we do a search of your name here, will we find any meaningful historical contributions or just post after post of you shopping your threadbare and boring anti-war agenda? If I were you, I'd be damn glad the Allies won the war no matter how they had to go about it.

Larry D.
Vietnam Veteran (and proud of it)

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