Brazilian pilot (Egon Albrecht)

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ignacioosacar
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Brazilian pilot (Egon Albrecht)

Post by ignacioosacar » 25 Jan 2009 22:07

Dear Forun,

Who knows the name of a Brazilian fighter pilot ( high scoring ace and probably Me 262 in the last days ) born in Santa Caterina ( Brazil ) and killed in action probably in 1943 ? I have even seen photos of him in internet but cannot find where now. Any informnation of other serving Brazilians ? Hard to find facts in Brazilian sources, mostly related to the Allied side !

Cheers

Ignacio

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Juanjo
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Re: Brazilian pilot

Post by Juanjo » 26 Jan 2009 08:06


ignacioosacar
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Re: Brazilian pilot

Post by ignacioosacar » 29 Jan 2009 12:55

Estimado Juanjo:

Muy agradecido. Debi haber leido mejor.

Ignacio

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Brazilian pilot

Post by Sid Guttridge » 29 Jan 2009 13:10

Hi Guys,

What defines "Brazilian"?

I was born in Jamaica, but nobody considers me Jamaican.

Before we go round randomly co-opting people to a particular nationality, shouldn't we first define what we mean?

For example, what passport did he carry?

What nationality did he consider himself to be?

Was he born Brazilian, or just to German parents who happened to be in Brazil?

Cheers,

Sid.

ignacioosacar
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Re: Brazilian pilot

Post by ignacioosacar » 31 Jan 2009 13:32

Dear Forum,

A large ethnic German community has existed in the south of Brazil for more than a century at least. The same case as the British in Argentina. Many second or third generation Argentinians of British ascendancy volunteered for the war, and died in the war.

You would be surprised what you may find if you do some research.

In the case of Germans it is a less known fact, specially in Brazil which happened to be an Allied country !

I remember the case of an Argentine Army Lieutenenat Colonel Shaeffer. He was born an raised in Argerntina, sent to Germany to study, high school or university, I am not sure which, but he was very young. The war broke out and he volunteered or was conscripted, as we was considered an ethnic German. He fought in the Russian front for an year or so. After the war he returned to Argentina and joined the Military College. After 4 years he was commisioned as an Artillery officer. He served for more than 30 years until his retirement. He passed away last year.

I am sure there are many of these cases in many latin American countries. Unlike the ones who served in the Allied side, few German or Italians descendants were very enthusiastic to tell much about their war involvement.

Cheers

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Bernd R
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Re: Brazilian pilot

Post by Bernd R » 31 Jan 2009 14:41

Also these places might be of interest.
http://www.batalhapelomundo.com.br/modu ... ic&t=15324
http://forums.tibiabr.com/archive/index ... 01848.html

and Egon Albrecht
Can someone here confirm if/when he was awarded the Golden Hitler Youth Badge ? It is somewhat unclear when he came to Germany and about his age he entered the HJ.

Bernd

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Brazilian pilot

Post by Sid Guttridge » 02 Feb 2009 19:24

Hi Igancioscar,

There were remarkably few South American Germans and Italians in the armed forces of those countries.

The Italians were well integrated with fellow Latins of Spanish and Portuguese descent and overwhelmingly loyal to their adoptive countries. Indeed, there was a rush of those who still held Italian passports to take out Brazilian citizenship after the outbreak of war.

Overseas Germans were usually directed to the Waffen-SS, but only two appear on the statistics I have. More Latin American Germans might well have liked to serve Germany, but the British blockade ensured that very few Reich Germans with reserve obligations to Germany could get home. Brazilian Germans seemed to have remained quiet or loyal to Brazil. At least two battalion commanders in the Brazilian division sent to Italy in 1944-45 bore German names, as did several of the pilots of the Brazilian fighter group in Italy. Another pilot of German origin was reportedly the first Brazilian to attack a U-boat.

Overall, the limited practical support they managed to get from their Latin American emigrants must have been something of a disappointment to Germany and Italy in WWII.

Cheers,

Sid.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Brazilian pilot

Post by Sid Guttridge » 02 Feb 2009 19:32

Hi Bernd,

From your links, it would appear that, apart from the date and place of his birth in Brazil, there is nothing known about his movements before joining the Luftwaffe. However, the links say that there are indications he was in the Hitler Jugend, which implies that he did not go straight from Brazil into the Luftwaffe, but must have spent some of his childhood and/or adolescence in Germany.

I remain doubtful he was Brazilian in any meaningful sense. His loyalties certainly didn't lie there!

Cheers,

Sid.

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Bernd R
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Re: Brazilian pilot

Post by Bernd R » 02 Feb 2009 20:00

Yes, Sid, that's what I learned from the discussions linked. My impression, too, from what I was able to understand, that there is a gap in his Bio. I thought about he eventually joined a "foreign HJ" in Brasil but I don't know enough about this (possible, existing). In any case, Egon Albrecht together with Rudel and another one or two are shown in works of Ernst Obermaier wearing the badge. No more detailed info there about when/why they received it.

regards, Bernd

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Brazilian pilot (Egon Albrecht)

Post by Sid Guttridge » 03 Feb 2009 11:02

Hi Bernd,

The Brazilian language links (which seem to be identical in text) do not mention any "foreign" Hitler Jugend. There was a Brazilian arm of the HJ, (Brazil had the largest overseas Nazi Party branch because the US equivalent was autonomous) but the links seem to think that he probably returned to Germany in his adolescence and joined it there.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Bernd R
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Re: Brazilian pilot (Egon Albrecht)

Post by Bernd R » 03 Feb 2009 19:52

Thanks Sid. Was unsure how this was organized (there are so many structures ; VDA [Verband der Auslandsdeutschen] for example). Yes, as there is no hint that there happened something exceptional in Albrecht's Bio which led to the badge on a basis of "honorary presentation" it has to be the case that he joined as an ordinary HJ member ; and this most likely in Germany.

regards, Bernd

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Re: Brazilian pilot (Egon Albrecht)

Post by Hülse » 17 Feb 2009 04:10

In answer to the Sid Guttridge question, brazilian is who born in Brazil. (Egon Friedrich Kurt Albrecht borned at City of Curitiba, Paraná State, Brazil, on 19th may, 1918, son of Frederico Albrecht and Hedwig Elditt Albrecht).

I must say that I'm proud of him (Egon Albrecht), as brazilian with deutsche ascendents (like me :D ). He fought with bravery for his believes.


Regards,

Hülse
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Re: Brazilian pilot (Egon Albrecht)

Post by Hülse » 17 Feb 2009 04:55

In remind to the memorie of Egon I post here the pict of his grave. (someone know were is it?)
egon04.jpg
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Hülse
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Re: Brazilian pilot (Egon Albrecht)

Post by Hülse » 17 Feb 2009 05:27

I remember of another brazilian luftwaffe pilot, also death o WWII, Wolfgang Ortman. He borned at São Bento, Brazil. For justice, I have to say that I'm proud of him too.
His life, career and death on luftwaffe is well documented, as you can see on below documents.
wolfgang_01.jpg
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ignacioosacar
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Re: Brazilian pilot (Egon Albrecht)

Post by ignacioosacar » 17 Feb 2009 12:10

Dear Hulse,

Very good research! I am sure there were many Brazilians in the German Armed Forces. If I were you I would check with the German Clubs and Associations in the Southern states were the German community is quite numerous. It is interesting that the two known cases so far were in the Luftwaffe. If you finally discover that there was a considerable number of serving Brasilians, it would be a good subject for a book.

Moito Brigato!

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