How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS

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Richard84
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How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS

Post by Richard84 » 09 Dec 2011 20:00

How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS?

I found contradictory statements.

E.g.:

Hirschfeld: Fremdherrschaft und Kollaboration (1984): 20-25.000
van der Zee: 25000 Landverraders. De SS in Nederland - Nederland in de SS (1967): 25.000
Int'Veld: De SS in Nederland (1967): 25.000

but:

Müller: An der Seite der Wehrmacht: (2007!): 40.000

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HaEn
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Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS

Post by HaEn » 09 Dec 2011 20:42

From memory ( might not be accurate)
Waffen SS: ABOUT 30,000
Other branches of the Wehrmacht
Kriegsmarine - N.S.K.K. - Heer (not many) - Luftwaffe - Dutch Ambulance corps : ABOUT 20,000
Hilfswilligen ( civilians in uniform for labor only) ABOUT 10,000
Hope this helps
HN

Rob - wssob2
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Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 12 Dec 2011 05:46

Former W-SS senior commander Felix Steiner in his 1950's books claimed there were "55,000" Dutch W-SS troops total.

Gerhard Hirschfeld in his book Nazi Rule and Dutch Collaboration: The Netherlands under German Occupation (Oxford: Berg, 1988), estimates 22-25,000 Dutch volunteers in the W-SS 1939-45.

Perry Pierik, in his book From Leningrad to Berlin analyzes the SS-FHA documents for Dutch W-SS volunteers from May 1942 to May 1944 and the total number of volunteers for that period is 20,000.

Richard84
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Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS

Post by Richard84 » 12 Dec 2011 14:20

Thanks for your answers.

"Former W-SS senior commander Felix Steiner in his 1950's books claimed there were "55,000" Dutch W-SS troops total."

That is very interesting, thanks.

20.-55.000, what is true?

Müller (2007) estimates 40.000 Dutch volunteers in the Waffen-SS 1939-45.
Maybe he is right...

Maybe ist impossible to get more informations; everybody writes another rate...

Rob - wssob2
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Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 14 Dec 2011 04:37

20.-55.000, what is true?
The consensus among contemporary historians for the estimateed number of Dutch Waffen-SS is roughly 25,000.

Presumably Felix Steiner's postwar books (e.g. Army of Outlaws et. al.) wanted to portray the W-SS with the greatest possible strength and the best possible light.

Here's some more statistics for you, from David Littlejohn's The Patriotic Traitors: The History of Collaboration in German-occupied Europe, 1940-45
  • In June 1944, the Dutch SS Panzergrenadier Brigade (4.SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Brigade Nederland) strength was 6,713

    By Sept 1944 Due to the recent heavy recruiting effort in Holland, Brigade strength was circa 9,000. (note: the brigade strength on the Eastern Front was roughly 6,500; the difference is probably due to AuE [reserve/training/replacement] troops)

    By the end of 1944, circa 12,000 Dutch were serving in the W-SS on active duty

    At least 3,700 Dutchmen were KIA in the W-SS during WWII

    To put the recruitment numbers in some perspective, note that 350,000 Dutchmen served in German industries (from volunteers to slave laborers) during WWII - see p.114

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rednas
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Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS

Post by rednas » 23 Dec 2011 15:43

These are the official (registrated) numbers of Dutch SS volunteers. Note that this only goes till May 1944. A lot volunteered afterwards too (notably in the Hungrewinter). Members of the NSB were pressed into service from Sept.44 etc. I would say that the number of volunteers is something between 25.000-30.000

http://waffen-ss.nl/aantal.php

Code: Select all

Month 	   Year   Total
augustus	 1942	6.796
november 	1942	9.347
december	 1942	11.301
april	    1943	12.799
mei	      1943	14.578
juli	     1943	15.766
augustus	 1943	16.284
september   1943	16.635
oktober	  1943	17.756
november 	1943	18.385
december 	1943	18.635
januari	  1944	19.093
februari	 1944	19.478
maart	    1944	19.815
mei	      1944	20.129

Sid Guttridge
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Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS

Post by Sid Guttridge » 23 Dec 2011 18:04

Steiner is clearly a statistical outlier. Everyone else seems to favour the range 20,000-30,000.

Rednas's statistics (above) show about 5,000 joined between May 1943 and May 1944. Assuming the same number were enlisted over the following year, the total would be around 25,000 - bang in the middle of this range.

It seems that there were never quite enough Dutch volunteers to keep a full division permanently in the field, but there were more than sufficient to keep a full brigade permanently in the field.

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Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS

Post by andrus » 24 Dec 2011 01:11

Sid Guttridge wrote:but there were more than sufficient to keep a full brigade permanently in the field.
Well, if you did speak about Nederland, then according to Militärgeschichtliche Mitteilungen 2/80 it did have in December 1943:

"Germanische Freiwillige aus Niederlande" 33/199/1984 (Führer/Unterführer/Mannschaften)
"Reichsdeutsche" 94/497/457
"Volksdeutsche aus Rumänien" 0/25/2070

and few other categories.

dutch serving in other units of Corps:
Nordland: 1/19/254
SS-Korps-Nachschub-Truppen 103: 1/0/6
Korps-Hauptquartier, Korps-Sicherungskompanie, Kriegsberichter und Feldgendarmerie: 2/8/129

reference goes to Tätigkeitsbericht des Korps-Kommandos des III. (germ.) SS-Panzerkorps vom 31.3.1944, BA-MA RS 2-3/2.

most important for III.SS-Pz.Korps were "Volksdeutsche aus Rumänien", second "Reichsdeutsche" (leader in Führer-category) and at third "Germanische Freiwillige aus Niederlande".

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Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS

Post by Sid Guttridge » 24 Dec 2011 13:51

Hi Andrus,

You highlight something often overlooked. The ±60,000 Romanian volksdeutshe, who were largely conscripted in 1943-44, were widely used to fill out under recruiting north-western European W-SS volunteer units, thereby inflating the apparently Nordic element in the W-SS's order of battle.

California
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Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS

Post by California » 31 Dec 2011 00:32

Some sources say on the subject of the fact that the 50,000 number is reached when you count the total number of people who enlisted, but didn't make it trough the medical examination.

Rob - wssob2
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Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 08 Jan 2012 15:36

Some sources say on the subject of the fact that the 50,000 number is reached when you count the total number of people who enlisted, but didn't make it trough the medical examination
Which sources?

Semenov
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Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS

Post by Semenov » 22 Aug 2012 21:33

Hello!
I search infos about SS-oficier Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands 8-)

Best wishes!


Semenov
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Re: How many Dutch serve in the Waffen-SS

Post by Semenov » 22 Aug 2012 22:23

Thanks! I don't found him in Foreign vol's section. He was german birth, not dutch :?

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