Eastern volunteers rank insignia
Eastern volunteers rank insignia
Hi,
I have thinking in this new topic for a long time, but due to its complicated nature, I had left the idea. But lets try
Volunteers from eastern territories had very, but very variaty of rank insignias: mixture of German, Russian, and of their own, anything one was able to find. The Germans later TRIED to unify these rank insignias (as shown below), but the practise was very far away.
Now what I try to find out throught this topic is:
1. What rank insignias (collar patches & shoulder boards) really existed, and UP to what rank. As it is well known, many times germans hold the officer´s ranks.
2. What other rank insignias existed out of these two plates.
A. For Russian and Ukrainian units: ROA had generals up to Generalleutnant rank as shown in this well known photo. Please ignore the person at right. B. For Russian and other nationalities:
I have thinking in this new topic for a long time, but due to its complicated nature, I had left the idea. But lets try
Volunteers from eastern territories had very, but very variaty of rank insignias: mixture of German, Russian, and of their own, anything one was able to find. The Germans later TRIED to unify these rank insignias (as shown below), but the practise was very far away.
Now what I try to find out throught this topic is:
1. What rank insignias (collar patches & shoulder boards) really existed, and UP to what rank. As it is well known, many times germans hold the officer´s ranks.
2. What other rank insignias existed out of these two plates.
A. For Russian and Ukrainian units: ROA had generals up to Generalleutnant rank as shown in this well known photo. Please ignore the person at right. B. For Russian and other nationalities:
Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia
Now this rank insingia published before in the forum is quiete different /curious:Is it a version of Generalleutnant?
Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia
Picture/plate n:o 5, And this one? Is it based in German or Russian ranks?
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Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia
I believe it was David Littlejohn or Jurgen Thorwald who pointed out that the the Ostruppen ranks were first published in Signal prior to the formation of many of the units!
In other words, the rank symbols were more propaganda than an accurate reflection of the ostruppen chain of command.
In other words, the rank symbols were more propaganda than an accurate reflection of the ostruppen chain of command.
Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia
You said it Rob, that is the purpose of this topic. Separate the official/published from the real.
N:o 6. The RONA clearly using the insignias of plate A with the rank of Oberleutnant N:o 7. Wellknown photo of Turkistani volunteers with B plate insignias.
N:o 6. The RONA clearly using the insignias of plate A with the rank of Oberleutnant N:o 7. Wellknown photo of Turkistani volunteers with B plate insignias.
Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia
The ROA officer at left clearly shows the shoulder boards of Oberst. So in coclusion AT LEAST ROA used the official rank insignias from Freiwilliger to Generalleutnant
The man behind the german officer? shows the collar insignias of leutnant/zugfuhrer, but I never remember to see somebody wearing the published (Signal) shoulder boards (= like a wide wave) of the plate "B".
Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia
Hi,
Welcome back to my boring topic. An Oberstleutnant´s collar insignias: one stripe(s) with one pip on the 7th man standing from left.
What I cannot figure out if there where one or two stripes on officer ranks.
Source: Chris Aislby "Mercenarios de Hitler" An oberst from Lithuania. Source AHF. In conclusion: the collar ranks existed until oberst, higher it must be complete fantasy.On shoulder boards only to NCO level.
Welcome back to my boring topic. An Oberstleutnant´s collar insignias: one stripe(s) with one pip on the 7th man standing from left.
What I cannot figure out if there where one or two stripes on officer ranks.
Source: Chris Aislby "Mercenarios de Hitler" An oberst from Lithuania. Source AHF. In conclusion: the collar ranks existed until oberst, higher it must be complete fantasy.On shoulder boards only to NCO level.
Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia
A QUESTION: Are these men from "Bergkaukasien" legion wearing black blank SS collar insignias or the red backed ones for Osttruppen? At least they are wearing SS eagle, totenkopf and belt buckle. And do you remember the source of the photos?
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Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia
Arto O wrote:Hi,
I have thinking in this new topic for a long time, but due to its complicated nature, I had left the idea. But lets try
Volunteers from eastern territories had very, but very variaty of rank insignias: mixture of German, Russian, and of their own, anything one was able to find. The Germans later TRIED to unify these rank insignias (as shown below), but the practise was very far away.
Now what I try to find out throught this topic is:
1. What rank insignias (collar patches & shoulder boards) really existed, and UP to what rank. As it is well known, many times germans hold the officer´s ranks.
2. What other rank insignias existed out of these two plates.
A. For Russian and Ukrainian units:2.JPG
ROA had generals up to Generalleutnant rank as shown in this well known photo. Please ignore the person at right. 1.JPG
B. For Russian and other nationalities:3.JPG
Hello there!
I know it's been like 7 years since you started this topic, but I would like to know from what book did you get that rank charts for both pictures you posted above?
Thank you!
Cheers,
RT
Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia
Hi RT.
The first on (Russian/Ukrainian) is from John Angolia and Adolf Schlicht: Uniforms & Traditions of the German Army 1933-1945, Vol. 2.
The second chart I cannot find in my books, so maybe it is from internet.
But some of these charts come originally from Signal magazine.
Sorry not able to help more.
Cheers
Arto
The first on (Russian/Ukrainian) is from John Angolia and Adolf Schlicht: Uniforms & Traditions of the German Army 1933-1945, Vol. 2.
The second chart I cannot find in my books, so maybe it is from internet.
But some of these charts come originally from Signal magazine.
Sorry not able to help more.
Cheers
Arto
Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia
The source is indeed the "Signal" magazine, Sonderheft-Ost 1943, p. 26.Arto O wrote:The second chart I cannot find in my books, so maybe it is from internet.
But some of these charts come originally from Signal magazine.
Cheers,
Ivan