Eastern volunteers rank insignia

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
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Arto O
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Eastern volunteers rank insignia

#1

Post by Arto O » 16 Dec 2011, 02:45

Hi,
I have thinking in this new topic for a long time, but due to its complicated nature, I had left the idea. But lets try :D
Volunteers from eastern territories had very, but very variaty of rank insignias: mixture of German, Russian, and of their own, anything one was able to find. The Germans later TRIED to unify these rank insignias (as shown below), but the practise was very far away.
Now what I try to find out throught this topic is:
1. What rank insignias (collar patches & shoulder boards) really existed, and UP to what rank. As it is well known, many times germans hold the officer´s ranks.
2. What other rank insignias existed out of these two plates.

A. For Russian and Ukrainian units:
2.JPG
A
2.JPG (84.02 KiB) Viewed 11359 times
ROA had generals up to Generalleutnant rank as shown in this well known photo. Please ignore the person at right.
1.JPG
ROA
1.JPG (78.84 KiB) Viewed 11359 times
B. For Russian and other nationalities:
3.JPG
B
3.JPG (77.87 KiB) Viewed 11359 times

Arto O
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Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia

#2

Post by Arto O » 16 Dec 2011, 02:51

Now this rank insingia published before in the forum is quiete different /curious:Is it a version of Generalleutnant?
13.JPG
Cossack general


Arto O
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Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia

#3

Post by Arto O » 16 Dec 2011, 03:05

Picture/plate n:o 5, And this one? Is it based in German or Russian ranks?
ww2-7.jpg
Cossack officer
ww2-7.jpg (34.58 KiB) Viewed 11353 times

Rob - wssob2
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Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia

#4

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 16 Dec 2011, 04:52

I believe it was David Littlejohn or Jurgen Thorwald who pointed out that the the Ostruppen ranks were first published in Signal prior to the formation of many of the units!

In other words, the rank symbols were more propaganda than an accurate reflection of the ostruppen chain of command.

Arto O
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Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia

#5

Post by Arto O » 16 Dec 2011, 05:22

You said it Rob, that is the purpose of this topic. Separate the official/published from the real.

N:o 6. The RONA clearly using the insignias of plate A with the rank of Oberleutnant
433px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-280-1075-10A%2C_Russland%2C_Borislaw_Kaminski.jpg
RONA
433px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-280-1075-10A%2C_Russland%2C_Borislaw_Kaminski.jpg (55.96 KiB) Viewed 11342 times
N:o 7. Wellknown photo of Turkistani volunteers with B plate insignias.
411px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-295-1561-06%2C_Frankreich%2C_Turkestani_in_der_Wehrmacht.jpg
Turkistani
411px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-295-1561-06%2C_Frankreich%2C_Turkestani_in_der_Wehrmacht.jpg (50.31 KiB) Viewed 11342 times

Arto O
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Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia

#6

Post by Arto O » 18 Dec 2011, 20:12

The ROA officer at left clearly shows the shoulder boards of Oberst. So in coclusion AT LEAST ROA used the official rank insignias from Freiwilliger to Generalleutnant
Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1984-101-32%2C_General_Andrej_Wlassow_mit_russischen_Freiwilligen.jpg
The man behind the german officer? shows the collar insignias of leutnant/zugfuhrer, but I never remember to see somebody wearing the published (Signal) shoulder boards (= like a wide wave) of the plate "B".
Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-296-1700-14%2C_Nordfrankreich%2C_Offizier_mit_Soldaten.jpg

Arto O
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Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia

#7

Post by Arto O » 20 Feb 2012, 03:17

Hi,
Welcome back to my boring topic. An Oberstleutnant´s collar insignias: one stripe(s) with one pip on the 7th man standing from left.
What I cannot figure out if there where one or two stripes on officer ranks.
Source: Chris Aislby "Mercenarios de Hitler"
RANKD.jpg
An oberst from Lithuania. Source AHF.
LITH.jpg
In conclusion: the collar ranks existed until oberst, higher it must be complete fantasy.On shoulder boards only to NCO level.

Arto O
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Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia

#8

Post by Arto O » 20 Feb 2012, 03:34

A QUESTION: Are these men from "Bergkaukasien" legion wearing black blank SS collar insignias or the red backed ones for Osttruppen? At least they are wearing SS eagle, totenkopf and belt buckle. And do you remember the source of the photos?
BERG1.jpg

Roald Thamesen
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Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia

#9

Post by Roald Thamesen » 24 Apr 2018, 07:20

Arto O wrote:Hi,
I have thinking in this new topic for a long time, but due to its complicated nature, I had left the idea. But lets try :D
Volunteers from eastern territories had very, but very variaty of rank insignias: mixture of German, Russian, and of their own, anything one was able to find. The Germans later TRIED to unify these rank insignias (as shown below), but the practise was very far away.
Now what I try to find out throught this topic is:
1. What rank insignias (collar patches & shoulder boards) really existed, and UP to what rank. As it is well known, many times germans hold the officer´s ranks.
2. What other rank insignias existed out of these two plates.

A. For Russian and Ukrainian units:2.JPG

ROA had generals up to Generalleutnant rank as shown in this well known photo. Please ignore the person at right. 1.JPG

B. For Russian and other nationalities:3.JPG

Hello there!
I know it's been like 7 years since you started this topic, but I would like to know from what book did you get that rank charts for both pictures you posted above?
Thank you!

Cheers,
RT

Arto O
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Posts: 1478
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 07:55

Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia

#10

Post by Arto O » 25 Apr 2018, 02:57

Hi RT.
The first on (Russian/Ukrainian) is from John Angolia and Adolf Schlicht: Uniforms & Traditions of the German Army 1933-1945, Vol. 2.
The second chart I cannot find in my books, so maybe it is from internet.
But some of these charts come originally from Signal magazine.
Sorry not able to help more.
Cheers
Arto

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: Eastern volunteers rank insignia

#11

Post by Ivan Ž. » 25 Apr 2018, 03:47

Arto O wrote:The second chart I cannot find in my books, so maybe it is from internet.
But some of these charts come originally from Signal magazine.
The source is indeed the "Signal" magazine, Sonderheft-Ost 1943, p. 26.

Cheers,
Ivan

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