Serbian volunteers on Eastern front

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
Kurti
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: 27 Jan 2017, 11:51
Location: Germany

Re: Serbian volunteers on Eastern front

#16

Post by Kurti » 28 Jul 2018, 20:18

I wonder why the germans did not raise a serbian volunteer unit for the eastern front? I don't mean the chetniks or the SVC, just a bataillion or regiment of the Wehrmacht filled with Serbs. They did this in every occupied country, exception poland, why not in serbia? I do not believe that Nedic could prevent that, if the germans wanted that.

User avatar
Ivan Ž.
Host - Music section
Posts: 8467
Joined: 05 Apr 2005, 13:28
Location: Serbia

Re: Serbian volunteers on Eastern front

#17

Post by Ivan Ž. » 29 Jul 2018, 20:44

Hitler distrusted the Serbs, considering them an enemy nation (above all, because of the March 1941 coup d'état), the same as the HSSPF Serbien, Meyszner, who referred to them as a nation of rats. The Serbs (who, due to their centuries-long experience with various occupiers, distrusted everyone) were far from keen on the idea of volunteering and fighting for the Germans against whom they bitterly fought in the previous war, especially after the monstrous German reprisals they were subjected to. The Germans were well aware that even Nedić's collaborationist forces were tied to the resistance, to an extent, and generally weren't too happy about a large number of Serbs being armed, well remembering the Serbs defeating them in WWI. They were also aware that even the Serbian Volunteer Corps officially fought in the name of the Yugoslav king, who was officially a British ally (they just ignored it). Strahinja Janjić, a lunatic and the founder of the so-called "Serbian Gestapo" (a ridiculous unit of less than 150 men), actually wanted to raise two Serbian SS divisions (one for the Eastern and the other for the African Front), but failed miserably. Neither the German military authorities nor the Serbs were much interested in his idea. There was also a bizzare attempt to recruit the Orthodox population of Bosnia (mainly Serbs) into the Muslim SS Division "Handschar", but it also failed miserably.

(Note: Yugoslav volunteers in the German army, that is, Banat Swabians, Croats, Bosnian Muslims and Kosovo Albanians, were generally used on the Yugoslav Front, not the Eastern Front.)

Cheers,
Ivan


Kurti
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: 27 Jan 2017, 11:51
Location: Germany

Re: Serbian volunteers on Eastern front

#18

Post by Kurti » 30 Jul 2018, 08:41

Thanks for that answer! I did not know that the serbs where so hated by the germans at that time.

User avatar
Ivan Ž.
Host - Music section
Posts: 8467
Joined: 05 Apr 2005, 13:28
Location: Serbia

Re: Serbian volunteers on Eastern front

#19

Post by Ivan Ž. » 30 Jul 2018, 11:35

Note that Hitler and Meyszner were Austrians actually, and that their attitude was by no means the attitude of the entire nation.

Prior to March 1941, Yugoslavia and the Third Reich were in very good relations actually, for years. But, again, everyone did also remember WWI. (For example, in many Serbian farmyards, there were helmets of defeated German WWI occupiers, used as water containers for animals.) And certain German officers, WWI veterans, saw WWII as an opportunity to take revenge on the old enemy. One of them was the commanding general in Serbia, Böhme - another Austrian - who actually referred to his men as avengers of the fallen German WWI soldiers (while sending them to take revenge on the civilian population).

Hitler was extremely angry because of the March 1941 coup d'état, even when the war was coming to an end, he still talked about it. On a 22 August 1944 meeting, he said: "The Serbs are a nation preserved and determined to have a state. Their ideology is Greater Serbian. Within them lives a ruthless resistance force. As such, they will always represent the Greater Serbian idea. Belgrade means danger. In 1941, I made the Serbs an incredible offer. I only required that they stay neutral and promised them Thessaloniki in return. They could not get a higher reward. But things developed in a way which by no means corresponded with that generous offer." (Hitler was mad at the Serbs, but he did respect them as tough opponents; he actually had a much worse opinion on his Croatian allies, about whom he, on the same occasion, said: "The Croats have no concept of the state and will never be able to have one. Those who lived without it for 500 years will never develop into a state. We'll decide later whether to incorporate Croatia into the Reich or to turn it into a protectorate.")

According to Ljotić's secretary B. Kostić, upon arriving in Serbia in 1942, Meyszner did request from Ljotić and Nedić to send a company of volunteers to the Eastern Front, for propaganda purposes, but the two categorically refused (being loyal to their Allied-oriented king), which increased Meyszner's distrust of the Serbian collaborationist forces. (According to the UDB research, Strahinja Janjić offered Meyszner to form an SS division the same year, and then even addressed Dr Goebbels, complaining about the lack of support from the German authorities he worked with in Serbia. Apparently, the Germans wanted to limit Janjić's activity to security police and intelligence sectors only.)

Ivan

Sources (for both posts): "Zbornik dokumenata i podataka o NOR-u naroda Jugoslavije" (Belgrade, 1949-1986), Vol. I, Book 1, Doc. 173, and Vol. XII, Book 4, Doc. 112; "Nemačka obaveštajna služba" (Belgrade, 1955–1960), Vol. IV, p. 591, and Vol. VIII, Doc. 312; B. Kostić, "Za istoriju naših dana" (Lille, 1949), p. 61, 68 and 70; M. Živančević, "Onostranstvo" (Novi Sad, 2008), p. 327; J. Steinberg, "All or Nothing" (London, 1990), p. 32; G. Lepre, "Himmler's Bosnian Division" (Atglen, 1997), p. 170; Muzej Republike Srpske, Ustaška propaganda (1941-1945), Poziv pravoslavcima da se jave u SS-diviziju; ibiblio.org, Address by Chancellor Adolf Hitler to Reichstag, Berlin, May 4, 1941. Read more on the German reprisals in Serbia (for example) in "Zbornik", Vol. I, Book 1, and Vol. XII, Book 1.

Kurti
Member
Posts: 46
Joined: 27 Jan 2017, 11:51
Location: Germany

Re: Serbian volunteers on Eastern front

#20

Post by Kurti » 02 Aug 2018, 19:55

Thank you Ivan! A very interresting topic.
So you can say that the serbs were the whipping boys of this war als every nation of the balkan wanted revenge on them.

User avatar
Ivan Ž.
Host - Music section
Posts: 8467
Joined: 05 Apr 2005, 13:28
Location: Serbia

Re: Serbian volunteers on Eastern front

#21

Post by Ivan Ž. » 02 Aug 2018, 21:02

Sadly, people took revenge on all sides. It was quite complicated, often chaotic. Everyone was fighting everyone, there were Croats against Croats, Albanians against Albanians, Serbs against Serbs... It was not every nation for itself, but more like every neighbourhood, and sometimes even every house for itself. Sometimes, there were even members of the same family fighting on different sides. But, it was not an ordinary war, but a political, civil and world war.

Cheers,
Ivan

Tucobenedito
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: 05 Dec 2016, 00:41
Location: Scotland

Re: Serbian volunteers on Eastern front

#22

Post by Tucobenedito » 02 Aug 2018, 23:03

Ivan Z
Very informative posts. Thanks for all that.
Regards Rich

User avatar
Torba
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 02 Jul 2018, 11:45
Location: Serbia

Re: Serbian volunteers on Eastern front

#23

Post by Torba » 08 Sep 2018, 11:49

Sorry Ivan but do what do you base the claim on that the people in the first post were not Serbian? Cheers.

User avatar
Ivan Ž.
Host - Music section
Posts: 8467
Joined: 05 Apr 2005, 13:28
Location: Serbia

Re: Serbian volunteers on Eastern front

#24

Post by Ivan Ž. » 08 Sep 2018, 13:24

Torba wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 11:49
Sorry Ivan but do what do you base the claim on that the people in the first post were not Serbian? Cheers.
? I never claimed that. (Please read the posts carefully before replying.)

Cheers,
Ivan

User avatar
Torba
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 02 Jul 2018, 11:45
Location: Serbia

Re: Serbian volunteers on Eastern front

#25

Post by Torba » 08 Sep 2018, 17:49

I assumed you did because of asking what made them Serbs. I'm sorry if I made a mistake.

marko671
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 17 Oct 2019, 23:55
Location: USA

Re: Serbian volunteers on Eastern front

#26

Post by marko671 » 30 Oct 2019, 02:18

Ivan Ž. wrote:
30 Jul 2018, 11:35
Note that Hitler and Meyszner were Austrians actually, and that their attitude was by no means the attitude of the entire nation.

Prior to March 1941, Yugoslavia and the Third Reich were in very good relations actually, for years. But, again, everyone did also remember WWI. (For example, in many Serbian farmyards, there were helmets of defeated German WWI occupiers, used as water containers for animals.) And certain German officers, WWI veterans, saw WWII as an opportunity to take revenge on the old enemy. One of them was the commanding general in Serbia, Böhme - another Austrian - who actually referred to his men as avengers of the fallen German WWI soldiers (while sending them to take revenge on the civilian population).

Hitler was extremely angry because of the March 1941 coup d'état, even when the war was coming to an end, he still talked about it. On a 22 August 1944 meeting, he said: "The Serbs are a nation preserved and determined to have a state. Their ideology is Greater Serbian. Within them lives a ruthless resistance force. As such, they will always represent the Greater Serbian idea. Belgrade means danger. In 1941, I made the Serbs an incredible offer. I only required that they stay neutral and promised them Thessaloniki in return. They could not get a higher reward. But things developed in a way which by no means corresponded with that generous offer." (Hitler was mad at the Serbs, but he did respect them as tough opponents; he actually had a much worse opinion on his Croatian allies, about whom he, on the same occasion, said: "The Croats have no concept of the state and will never be able to have one. Those who lived without it for 500 years will never develop into a state. We'll decide later whether to incorporate Croatia into the Reich or to turn it into a protectorate.")

According to Ljotić's secretary B. Kostić, upon arriving in Serbia in 1942, Meyszner did request from Ljotić and Nedić to send a company of volunteers to the Eastern Front, for propaganda purposes, but the two categorically refused (being loyal to their Allied-oriented king), which increased Meyszner's distrust of the Serbian collaborationist forces. (According to the UDB research, Strahinja Janjić offered Meyszner to form an SS division the same year, and then even addressed Dr Goebbels, complaining about the lack of support from the German authorities he worked with in Serbia. Apparently, the Germans wanted to limit Janjić's activity to security police and intelligence sectors only.)

Ivan

Sources (for both posts): "Zbornik dokumenata i podataka o NOR-u naroda Jugoslavije" (Belgrade, 1949-1986), Vol. I, Book 1, Doc. 173, and Vol. XII, Book 4, Doc. 112; "Nemačka obaveštajna služba" (Belgrade, 1955–1960), Vol. IV, p. 591, and Vol. VIII, Doc. 312; B. Kostić, "Za istoriju naših dana" (Lille, 1949), p. 61, 68 and 70; M. Živančević, "Onostranstvo" (Novi Sad, 2008), p. 327; J. Steinberg, "All or Nothing" (London, 1990), p. 32; G. Lepre, "Himmler's Bosnian Division" (Atglen, 1997), p. 170; Muzej Republike Srpske, Ustaška propaganda (1941-1945), Poziv pravoslavcima da se jave u SS-diviziju; ibiblio.org, Address by Chancellor Adolf Hitler to Reichstag, Berlin, May 4, 1941. Read more on the German reprisals in Serbia (for example) in "Zbornik", Vol. I, Book 1, and Vol. XII, Book 1.
Excuse me, I did not find a source for your quote about Hitler's opinion regarding Serbs. Could you possibly link it? Thanks in advance.

User avatar
Ivan Ž.
Host - Music section
Posts: 8467
Joined: 05 Apr 2005, 13:28
Location: Serbia

Re: Serbian volunteers on Eastern front

#27

Post by Ivan Ž. » 30 Oct 2019, 03:16

Hello, Marko

You can find a Serbian translation in "Zbornik dokumenata i podataka o NOR-u naroda Jugoslavije" Vol. XII, Book 4, Doc. 112 (pp. 529-530).

You can find the the original (German) text at the US National Archives, RG 242, T-311, roll 192, frames 000807, 000808 and 000809.

Cheers,
Ivan

history1
Banned
Posts: 4095
Joined: 31 Oct 2005, 10:12
Location: Austria

Re: Serbian volunteers on Eastern front

#28

Post by history1 » 30 Oct 2019, 17:08

Ivan Ž. wrote:
30 Jul 2018, 11:35
Note that Hitler and Meyszner were Austrians actually, and that their attitude was by no means the attitude of the entire nation. [...]
I guess you mean with this statement that Hitler was an Austrian at the time of his birth?
As he fought in WWI with the Bavarian Army he lost with this action according Austrian laws (still valid!) his citizenship! Furthermore it wasn´t possible for him to become a German politician/official with a (then already former) Austrian citizenship what made him ask the Austrian authorities to verify that his citizenship got revoked. Afterwards he got the German citizenship (before being made to chancelor of teh Reich by Hindenburg) and the rest of the story is known to the whole world.
Cheers,
Roman

Post Reply

Return to “Foreign Volunteers & Collaboration”