Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
daveshoup2MD
Member
Posts: 1541
Joined: 01 Feb 2020 18:10
Location: Coral and brass

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 30 Apr 2021 05:29

Takao wrote:
29 Apr 2021 21:25
LineDoggie wrote:
29 Apr 2021 00:04
daveshoup2MD wrote:
28 Apr 2021 22:58
Komi wrote:
28 Apr 2021 11:04
LineDoggie wrote:
28 Apr 2021 01:44
They had the traitor Martin James Monti a Defecting USAAF pilot who became a Waffen-SS Untersturmführer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_James_Monti
Yes I've heard of him. As I mentioned there were American individuals who ended up in the German armed forces, but there doesn't seem to have been any attempt to recruit a unit of them, even a minuscule one like the British Free Corps. I was curious why that was the case.
daveshoup2MD wrote:
28 Apr 2021 05:01
Because even the most deluded bundist in 1939 knew the odds in 1942 and afterwards?
And the men who joined the British Free Corps in 1943 didn't?
Perhaps not, given your own post.

Not to single out Lindbergh, but even he tried to join up, and ended up overseas as a civilian contractor and flew multiple combat missions. Mosley was interned until 1943 and then under house arrest; interesting contrast.
Mosley's son won the MC in Italy with the Rifle Brigade
Col Lindbergh still held a reserve commission and hard for some to remember but JFK & Gerry Ford were both America Firster's
America First was not a pro-Nazi group, and their members joined for a variety of reasons.

The American pro-Nazis joined the Bund.
Yes and no. Some did both.

User avatar
Takao
Member
Posts: 3366
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 19:27
Location: Reading, Pa

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by Takao » 30 Apr 2021 11:07

daveshoup2MD wrote:
30 Apr 2021 05:29
Yes and no. Some did both.
Some did, but only some.
The America First Committee was isolationist and against sending Americans to fight in the European War - Hardly a fertile field to recruit men to fight for Germany.

The German American Bund had their own training camps and were distinctly pro-German. So there is a much better chance of getting recruits to fight for Germany. However, the German-Americans that did heed the call to return to the Fatherland, were seen as German, not American(which has been mentioned earlier).

daveshoup2MD
Member
Posts: 1541
Joined: 01 Feb 2020 18:10
Location: Coral and brass

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 01 May 2021 03:05

Takao wrote:
30 Apr 2021 11:07
daveshoup2MD wrote:
30 Apr 2021 05:29
Yes and no. Some did both.
Some did, but only some.
The America First Committee was isolationist and against sending Americans to fight in the European War - Hardly a fertile field to recruit men to fight for Germany.

The German American Bund had their own training camps and were distinctly pro-German. So there is a much better chance of getting recruits to fight for Germany. However, the German-Americans that did heed the call to return to the Fatherland, were seen as German, not American(which has been mentioned earlier).
True enough. All in all, perhaps there were just more aspiring Fascists in the British Army.

LineDoggie
Member
Posts: 701
Joined: 03 Oct 2008 20:06

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by LineDoggie » 04 May 2021 04:40

daveshoup2MD wrote:
30 Apr 2021 05:28


Mosley's son was, presumably, an honorable individual. Lindbergh, albeit a fellow traveler in the 1930s, was decent enough to offer his services against the Axis. He was also a generation older than Ford and JFK; presumably he should have known better. Mosley certainly should have.
"Known better"? why should we have wanted to go to war in 1939?

we've no deal with the British to defend each other and many Americans believed we were suckered into the first war with Wellington house propaganda

its like the Zimmermann telegram

cue the outrage at the Huns offering California, etc to Mexico

there was no way the German navy blockaded was going to get past the Home fleet and across the Atlantic and lay off say Vera Cruz to unload war material to the Mexicans without the RN & USN intercepting said shipping. AND the Mexican GHQ was soiling themselves at the thought of taking an invasion into the lower 48 they werent fools
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

LineDoggie
Member
Posts: 701
Joined: 03 Oct 2008 20:06

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by LineDoggie » 04 May 2021 04:41

daveshoup2MD wrote:
01 May 2021 03:05
Takao wrote:
30 Apr 2021 11:07
daveshoup2MD wrote:
30 Apr 2021 05:29
Yes and no. Some did both.
Some did, but only some.
The America First Committee was isolationist and against sending Americans to fight in the European War - Hardly a fertile field to recruit men to fight for Germany.

The German American Bund had their own training camps and were distinctly pro-German. So there is a much better chance of getting recruits to fight for Germany. However, the German-Americans that did heed the call to return to the Fatherland, were seen as German, not American(which has been mentioned earlier).
Certainly a certain retired king was a admirer of the bohemian lance jack

True enough. All in all, perhaps there were just more aspiring Fascists in the British Army.
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

daveshoup2MD
Member
Posts: 1541
Joined: 01 Feb 2020 18:10
Location: Coral and brass

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 04 May 2021 04:48

LineDoggie wrote:
04 May 2021 04:40
daveshoup2MD wrote:
30 Apr 2021 05:28


Mosley's son was, presumably, an honorable individual. Lindbergh, albeit a fellow traveler in the 1930s, was decent enough to offer his services against the Axis. He was also a generation older than Ford and JFK; presumably he should have known better. Mosley certainly should have.
"Known better"? why should we have wanted to go to war in 1939?
"Go to war" in 1939? Who said that?

But understanding that an advanced power like Germany in control of Europe, and in alliance with Japan, was a very real threat to the Western Hemisphere? And standing by why the non-Axis European nations were picked off?

One would have to be blind not to see what was coming ...

Linkagain
Member
Posts: 454
Joined: 13 Apr 2021 18:04
Location: US

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by Linkagain » 24 Aug 2021 01:58

Lindbergh was ethnic Scandavian {Swedish} not German

Sid Guttridge
Member
Posts: 9800
Joined: 12 Jun 2008 11:19

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 24 Aug 2021 06:23

Hi Linkagain,

In Nazi terms that would make him "Germanic".

Cheers,

Sid

LAstry
Member
Posts: 139
Joined: 07 Feb 2022 17:33
Location: USA

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by LAstry » 07 Feb 2022 21:46

This axis History link reports about 8 Amercans [3 listed by name]
https://www.axishistory.com/axis-nation ... -waffen-ss

User avatar
Sheldrake
Member
Posts: 3334
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 17:14
Location: London

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by Sheldrake » 08 Feb 2022 01:01

daveshoup2MD wrote:
01 May 2021 03:05
Takao wrote:
30 Apr 2021 11:07
daveshoup2MD wrote:
30 Apr 2021 05:29
Yes and no. Some did both.
Some did, but only some.
The America First Committee was isolationist and against sending Americans to fight in the European War - Hardly a fertile field to recruit men to fight for Germany.

The German American Bund had their own training camps and were distinctly pro-German. So there is a much better chance of getting recruits to fight for Germany. However, the German-Americans that did heed the call to return to the Fatherland, were seen as German, not American(which has been mentioned earlier).
True enough. All in all, perhaps there were just more aspiring Fascists in the British Army.
Hardly. The Germans did not recruit many Brits into their Freikorps. Of the handful they did, one was a British Agent awarded the DCM for his efforts inside the SS.

Some Britons were attracted to the ideas of Facism. Anti Semitism was commonplace and the Bolsheviks were regarded as a threat.

Oswald Mosley had been an MP for the Conservative and then Labour parties and then created his own British Union of Fascists.(BUF) His wife Cynthia was the daughter of Lord Curzon the Viceroy of India and his first wife US mercantile heiress Mary Leiter. The BUF were a bunch of thugs. P G Woodhouse lampooned Mosley as "Spode" and his army of black-shorts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderick_Spode

Few Britons sided with Mosley and fewer with Hitler or Mussolini.

daveshoup2MD
Member
Posts: 1541
Joined: 01 Feb 2020 18:10
Location: Coral and brass

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by daveshoup2MD » 08 Feb 2022 02:53

Sheldrake wrote:
08 Feb 2022 01:01
daveshoup2MD wrote:
01 May 2021 03:05
Takao wrote:
30 Apr 2021 11:07
daveshoup2MD wrote:
30 Apr 2021 05:29
Yes and no. Some did both.
Some did, but only some.
The America First Committee was isolationist and against sending Americans to fight in the European War - Hardly a fertile field to recruit men to fight for Germany.

The German American Bund had their own training camps and were distinctly pro-German. So there is a much better chance of getting recruits to fight for Germany. However, the German-Americans that did heed the call to return to the Fatherland, were seen as German, not American(which has been mentioned earlier).
True enough. All in all, perhaps there were just more aspiring Fascists in the British Army.
Hardly. The Germans did not recruit many Brits into their Freikorps. Of the handful they did, one was a British Agent awarded the DCM for his efforts inside the SS.

Some Britons were attracted to the ideas of Facism. Anti Semitism was commonplace and the Bolsheviks were regarded as a threat.

Oswald Mosley had been an MP for the Conservative and then Labour parties and then created his own British Union of Fascists.(BUF) His wife Cynthia was the daughter of Lord Curzon the Viceroy of India and his first wife US mercantile heiress Mary Leiter. The BUF were a bunch of thugs. P G Woodhouse lampooned Mosley as "Spode" and his army of black-shorts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roderick_Spode

Few Britons sided with Mosley and fewer with Hitler or Mussolini.
Understood. I did say "aspiring." ;)

Sid Guttridge
Member
Posts: 9800
Joined: 12 Jun 2008 11:19

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 08 Feb 2022 12:14

Hi Sheldrake,

You post, "Few Britons sided with Mosley....."

Indeed, and of those who did, most remained loyal after the outbreak of war. From an earlier thread on AHF:

"One of the very first fatalities Kenneth Day was a member of Sir Oswald Mosley's British Union of Fascists - a 'blackshirt'. The deaths of Ken Day and George Brocking were reported in Mosley's Action newspaper of October 12th 1939. The report stated: "In the first casualty list of the war appeared two names: K.G.Day and G.T.Brocking. Both were British Union members - both went down in the early days of the war in circumstances of extraordinary heroism, the details of which will one day be revealed. We Shall Remember."

Both were apparently members of 9 Squadron, RAF, and were killed on 4 September just one day into Britain's war.

Cheers,

Sid.

User avatar
WAR LORD
Member
Posts: 881
Joined: 27 Apr 2002 13:25
Location: UK

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by WAR LORD » 08 Feb 2022 12:23

Few Britons sided with Mosley, I think this statement is a bit incorect. The Earls Court meeting was a very well attended event. Their was a strong pro German grouping, taking in many infleuential people. Lord Rothermear to name but one. The linc as a movement

User avatar
WAR LORD
Member
Posts: 881
Joined: 27 Apr 2002 13:25
Location: UK

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by WAR LORD » 08 Feb 2022 12:25

The Germans did not recruit many Brits into their Freikorps. Of the handful they did, one was a British Agent awarded the DCM for his efforts inside the SS. Who was the agent and when did he get the DCM what was the citation?

User avatar
Sheldrake
Member
Posts: 3334
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 17:14
Location: London

Re: Why was there no American equivalent to the British Free Corps?

Post by Sheldrake » 08 Feb 2022 14:53

WAR LORD wrote:
08 Feb 2022 12:25
The Germans did not recruit many Brits into their Freikorps. Of the handful they did, one was a British Agent awarded the DCM for his efforts inside the SS. Who was the agent and when did he get the DCM what was the citation?
It was BQMS John Henry Owen Brown Royal Artillery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brow ... y_soldier) #

His link to SIS was Julius Green https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Green

Return to “Foreign Volunteers & Collaboration”