Italians in the Waffen-SS

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
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GLADIVM
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Re: Website on 29th SS Div Italian

#121

Post by GLADIVM » 02 Dec 2009, 14:29

Alessandro Scano was the son of the officer killed by partisans in April 45

Yours

GLADIVM

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Waffen211
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Re: Website on 29th SS Div Italian

#122

Post by Waffen211 » 02 Dec 2009, 21:17

ITALIANI NELLA WAFFEN SS

A new work of Massimiliano Afiero, About Italian volunteers in the Waffen SS, with many article written by veterans today alive.

For major info: http://www.maxafiero.it.
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Panzermahn
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Re: non germans in the Waffen SS Divisions

#123

Post by Panzermahn » 25 Jun 2011, 04:28

Rob - wssob2 wrote:
pio filippani ronconi claims the red colored badge was ???chosen?? as a symbol for "blood" (article) but it shouldn t be like this..on the other hand as a discriminatory sign: central asians and every non germanic european nationality had a black badge without any merit..maybe the germans were angry for the 8.9.43 but italians were enlisting willing to fight with them...
Himmler's Oct 2, 1943 order raising the Italian Waffen Militz (Milizia Armata - which eventually became the 29th SS) specified SS style collar tabs but on another base color. By February 1944, Italian SS troops were wearing homemade "SS runes” patches stitched onto red Italian army collar tabs, Italian Army rank worn on left breast, and a stylized eagle holding a fasces patch on the left arm. The red "SS” tabs were unofficial and unauthorized by the SS, although some Italian SS continued to wear them well into the fall of 1944.

BTW maroon red was the Italian Army/ENR color for the infantry branch. Ronconi has an active imagination.

After their participation in the defense of Anzio, Himmler permitted unit members of SS Füsilier Battalion 29 Debica and II Battalion, Waffen-Grenadier Regt. 81 Vendetta to wear standard SS white-on-black collar tabs. Himmler act was intended as congratulatory and as indication that the Italian SS troops had "earned their runes" and were no longer probationary members of the Waffen-SS as it were. It was also a propaganda move that had little to do with the actual combat performance of the Italian SS at Anzio.

Keep in mind, however, there was pretty much zero standardization WRT uniforms in the 29th SS, and multiple varieties of insignia worn. Photos of the 29th SS show troops that looked pretty much exactly the same as their ENR (RSI Army) counterparts.
Some of the red tabs worn by the Italian SS legion (before the Anzio-Nettuno battles of 1943) were actually surplus material worn by flak troops that were utilized by the Italian SS men due to lack of material for them from the SS depot
It was also a propaganda move that had little to do with the actual combat performance of the Italian SS at Anzio
This is just pure hogwash. Battalion Degli Oddi (under Waffen Obersturmbahnführer Carlo Frederico Degli Oddi) with around 600 man at the beginning of the Anzio-Nettuno battles were reduced to around less than 100 hundred man which certainly impressed Himmler. In fact, the Americans even contemplate of abandoning the Anzio beachhead and it didnt happen thanks to the air superiority of the Allies. Pio-Fillipani Ronconi was one the members of the Battalion Degli Oddi who survived and was awarded Iron Cross. There is an interview with the late Ronconi in one of the Volontari magazine issue dated around 2005 or 2006 (i can't recall which one)

The Vendetta battalion (probably some of the men from the Debica Battalion) of the Italian SS legion also wore the anthroposofia collar tab design by Ronconi himself which consist of three arrows in a yoke (reminiscient of the Spanish Phalange party symbol as Ronconi stayed in Spain during the 30s) representing the motto "Believe-Obey-Fight!"

Arto O
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Re: non germans in the Waffen SS Divisions

#124

Post by Arto O » 25 Jun 2011, 04:35

Thanks Panzermahn,
Interesting the detail of the origen of the three arrows in a yoke collar patch.
Arto

Arto O
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Re: Pictures of Italian SS

#125

Post by Arto O » 25 Mar 2012, 20:05

Hi,
Do somebody recognize this Italian SS-KB?
Ital%2520ss%2520prop2.jpg
Ital%2520ss%2520prop2.jpg (26.17 KiB) Viewed 1804 times
Is this a real rifle, or is less calibre practice rifle?
lorioli2.jpg
lorioli2.jpg (23.66 KiB) Viewed 1804 times
Thanks
Arto

Rob - wssob2
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Re: Pictures of Italian SS

#126

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 25 Mar 2012, 20:59

The book Sentire - Pensare - Volere (Sergio Corbatti & Marco Nava, 2001) has a series of photos, similar to the second above, of individuals aiming toy rifles toward the camera. I belive they were taken at an arcade galley of an amusement park.

Arto O
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Re: Pictures of Italian SS

#127

Post by Arto O » 25 Mar 2012, 21:57

Thanks Rob,
so we suppose that the photo was taken during the times of the war, where the men spent their time in this park.
Arto

Arto O
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Re: Pictures of Italian SS

#128

Post by Arto O » 02 Sep 2012, 07:47

Hi,
Is this real or reenactment? Source; flickrhivemind.net
Thanks
Arto
6042298313_60f7e4fd4f.jpg
6042298313_60f7e4fd4f.jpg (102.2 KiB) Viewed 1598 times

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Semenov
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Re: Pictures of Italian SS

#129

Post by Semenov » 02 Sep 2012, 08:40

Arto O wrote:Hi,
Is this real or reenactment? Source; flickrhivemind.net
Thanks
Arto
6042298313_60f7e4fd4f.jpg
reenactment

Arto O
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Re: Pictures of Italian SS

#130

Post by Arto O » 02 Sep 2012, 21:10

Thanks Semenov,
That´s what I thought. Here others, which are real, from Gothicline´s blog. Very interesting photos about the variety of uniforms and insignias used by Italian SS troops. The most curious/interesting is the first photo about this officer and the huge SS runes painted in his helmet. Do somebody know who he was?
Thanks
Arto
ital-ss-big-runes.jpg
variant-ital-ss-eagle.jpg

Rob - wssob2
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Re: Pictures of Italian SS

#131

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 03 Sep 2012, 18:54

The most curious/interesting is the first photo about this officer and the huge SS runes painted in his helmet. Do somebody know who he was?
Waffen-Stubaf. Pietro Martinelli, CO of the Antitank detachment (Panzerjager Abt.) being awarded an Iron Cross 2nd Class by Karl Wolff, HoSSPF for occupied Italy, at the town of Mariano Comese on November 23, 1944

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Marcus
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Re: Pictures of Italian SS

#132

Post by Marcus » 07 Sep 2012, 21:29

A discussion on War crimes of the Italian SS was split off into a new thread.

/Marcus

Ustuf.33
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Re: Pictures of Italian SS

#133

Post by Ustuf.33 » 08 Sep 2012, 12:02

nice pictures

nicgue
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Re: PhD on Italian volunteers in the Waffen SS

#134

Post by nicgue » 12 May 2013, 09:44

http://www.academia.edu/2099177/I_volon ... oria_orale

A Phd on the Italian volunteers with pictures and english summary!

nicgue
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Re: PhD on Italian volunteers in the Waffen SS

#135

Post by nicgue » 16 May 2013, 23:28

a very short summary in Finnish on antisemitis as anticapitalism

http://www.academia.edu/3079838/An_inte ... n_memory#1

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