SS Nationality Breakdown

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
Polynikes
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SS Nationality Breakdown

Postby Polynikes » 08 Feb 2004 01:56

Not sure if this has already been done but I can't find it.

Does anyone have any figures for the breakdown of nationalities in the Waffen SS.

I assume that German was the most common nationality followed by Soviet citizen and then Dutch but what about the rest?

Cheers from Rich

Ostuf Charlemagne
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Postby Ostuf Charlemagne » 08 Feb 2004 02:38

There is a lot of different number ,depending on the source ....but mostly :

40000 hungarians , 10 000 frenchs ,btween 12 000 or 15000 italians , 1000 or 1500 spaniards, 50 portugueses, 7 icelanders, 2000 armenians ,5000 rumanians ,2000 kalmuks ....etc....buy "forgotten Legions" of Antonio Muñoz...go to http://www.axiseuropa.com

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Warager
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Postby Warager » 28 Apr 2005 20:08

My friend i hope this is what you are looking

DUTCH 50,000
FLEMINGS 23,000
ITALIANS 20,000
WALLOONS 15,000
DANES 11,000
FRENCH 8,000
NORWEGIANS6,000
SPANISH
SWISS
SWEDES
LUXEMBOURGERS
BRITISH 4,000
EAST EUROPEANS
COSSACKS 50,000
LATVIANS 35,000
UKRANIANS 30,000
ESTONIANS 20,000
CROATIANS 20,000
SERBIANS 15,000
BELORUSSIANS12,000
TURKESTANIS8,000
ROMANIANS 5,000
ALBANIANS 3,000
BULGARIANS 1,000
FINNS 1,000

VOLKSDEUTSCHE
(BY COUNTRY OF ORIGIN)

HUNGARY 80,000
CZECHOSLOVAKIA 45,000
CROATIA 25,000

WESTERN EUROPE 16,000

ROMANIA 8,000
POLAND 5,000
SERBIA 5,000
SCANDINAVIA 775
SOVIET UNION 100
FRANCE 84
GREAT BRITAIN 10
USA 5
BRAZIL 4
CHINA 3
S W AFRICA 3
S E AFRICA 2
SOUTH AMERICA 2
SPAIN 2
PALESTINE 2
JAPAN 2
SUMATRA 2
MEXICO 1
AUSTRALIA 1
INDIA 1
NEW GUINEA 1

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Gertjan
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Postby Gertjan » 28 Apr 2005 21:16

The number of 50,000 for Dutch volunteers in the Waffen-SS is overestimated. The latest number is about 25,000 within the waffen-SS, the remainder within the OT, NSKK, Heer, Kriegsmarine and other units.

Gertjan

Helmut Von Moltke
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Postby Helmut Von Moltke » 24 Oct 2005 14:02

wait... why in the long list did Britain have 4000? What did that represent? The strength of the Britsih Freikorps? LOL is that wa s true at all... and how did New Guinians, South Americans, Chinese and Palestinains get into the SS? I'm not talking about how racially they got in but how they travelled from their original country to the Third Reich. The Allies controlled most of the sealanes...

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Daniel Laurent
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Postby Daniel Laurent » 24 Oct 2005 15:06

Funny thread...
First figure given for the French Waffen SS: 10,000
Second one: 8,000
Well, they were *in fact* a maximum of 7,500, out of which 2,500 volunteered and followed the real Waffen SS training, the others being remnant of the LVF, NSKK, Milice, etc, incorporated into the Division Charlemagne end of 44 without being really volunteering for it.

If other figures are of the same sort, we better work it out, gentlemen
:lol:

Italians? There were Italian Waffen SS??
Please, give us details...

Regards
Daniel

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FRANCY RITTER
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Postby FRANCY RITTER » 24 Oct 2005 15:41

Italians? There were Italian Waffen SS??
Please, give us details...


Hello to all !!. :D

Voilà ici Daniel ...


"It seems they were 300 italians serving within LSSAH.... In 1943,after the 8th september armistice,some fascist soldiers wanted to stay loyal to the Axis and joined the division... most were used as mecanicians since the LSSAH had seized lot of italians vehicles.But after the division was sent to Ukrain in November,many were sent to replace losses within the panzergrenadieren rgts of the division.In March 44 ,50 of them accepted to be sent to the italian SS brigade ..this group was formed at the Lichterfelde Kaserne,Berlin's depot of the LSSAH,and traveled by train to Italy ,ounder guidance of german oberscharfuehrer Willy Detering,to Verona,Italy. Those were the first italians of the italian SS Legion to wear the SS runes black tabs,while their comrades had always the red tabs.
(and ones of the fews to be tattoed - the italian brigade volunteers were never tattoed.)
One of them was unterscharfuehrer Giuseppe Medda,who will lost his leg in a communist explosive attempt against the Pinerolo Quarters where an SS italian batallion was stationned ,in september 1944.
But not all italians leave the LSSAH, 100 will stay untill the end of the war with the division,others were sent to the 12th Hitler-Jugend and organic units of the I SS Panzerkorps.For instance a report of the 501 th SS Panzerabteilung (Tigers tanks ) of september 5th 1944,mentionate that 21 italians volunteers of this abteilung were killed in action in Normandy.
They provened from the LSSAH....
Many italians served within other SS divisions like in the 4th SS , 7th SS,
10th SS, 11th SS, 16th SS, 17th SS ,24th SS, 28 th SS (yes.. 100 italians nationals within the Wallonie...) and with Otto Skorzeny special forces."


From... viewtopic.php?t=32569&highlight=italian

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Daniel Laurent
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Postby Daniel Laurent » 24 Oct 2005 16:33

FRANCY RITTER wrote:Italians? There were Italian Waffen SS??
Please, give us details...

Hello to all !!. :D
Voilà ici Daniel ...
From... viewtopic.php?t=32569&highlight=italian


Sorry, Francy, but your source is Ostuf Charlemagne
Anything better?
Dig in the forum archives about this banned member, you will understand why I feel like not taking his quotes as "guarranteed".
He is, among few other spicy jokes, the one who called Count Pierre Louis de la Ney du Vair an "American Waffen SS"... while du Vair was a French citizen member of the Milice and, briefly, of the LVF.
Regards
Daniel

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FRANCY RITTER
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Postby FRANCY RITTER » 24 Oct 2005 17:02

Daniel...I have found the same data of Ostuf.Charlmagne ,in the italian history magazine "Eserciti nella Storia" special edition "Storia delle SS"...article " Italiani nelle SS"= " Italians in the SS".

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FRANCY RITTER
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Postby FRANCY RITTER » 24 Oct 2005 17:25

An small INFO. on the Italians in the WSS.
In the 4 SS Polizei Division it was operating the independent company " Aquila"=" Eagle" only formed of italians men.
This company (I think) it has been used in the Jugoslavia

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Daniel Laurent
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Postby Daniel Laurent » 24 Oct 2005 18:02

FRANCY RITTER wrote:Daniel...I have found the same data of Ostuf.Charlmagne ,in the italian history magazine "Eserciti nella Storia" special edition "Storia delle SS"...article " Italiani nelle SS"= " Italians in the SS".


Eserciti nella Storia
Much better, thanks.
Sorry, I wasn't challenging you, just being cautious
Get caught already :cry:
Arrivederci, caro camerata
Daniele Laurenti
My gift of the day is attached
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Marc Rikmenspoel
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Postby Marc Rikmenspoel » 24 Oct 2005 19:06

I've not heard before of Italians joining the LAH as Hiwis during the summer of 1943, though it is certainly possible that some did join and went to the Eastern Front. What IS documented, and I have seen a photo of it, is that some Italian parachutists of the rebuilding Folgore Division, a platoon or so, served with the 2. Fallschirmjäger Division's Recon element as combat soldiers when that division went to Ukraine in the autumn of 1943.

About the French Waffen-SS, I have argued in one of my books that the number of men must approach 11,000. This is because the main body of the Charlemagne Brigade/Division numbered around 7500 men. A further 1200 were in the "Marsch Regiment" Ersatz element, that surrendered to Free French forces on the Western Front. Other elements of Charlemagne were still at specialized training schools when the main body went into combat in Pomerania, I don't have any specific figure. Perhaps 300 French joined the Waffen-SS prior to the establishment of the French Waffen-SS, a figure that is only a best guess, but it is known that Frenchmen travelled to Belgium and passed themselves off as Flemings and Walloons to join the German-sponsored forces of those regions (and Frenchmen from French Flanders were of course actually Flemings), while others from the French Navy joined in 1942 after clashes with the British Royal Navy (documented in Hahl & Hack's book on Wiking Panzergrenadiere). Finally, an unspecified number of Frenchmen served in the Brandenburgers, and then with the successor SS-Jagdverbände.

Put it all together, and I feel it MUST have totalled more than 7500-8000 men, though I don't disagree that only 2500 (maybe 2800) at most were true volunteers who had the "real" Waffen-SS training given to the French, Flemish, and Walloon Sturmbrigades and those who went to Wiking.

Georges JEROME
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Postby Georges JEROME » 24 Oct 2005 21:15

I found the following figures in the Heimdal "Dictionnaire historique de la Waffen SS" 1998

germanic countries
Holland 40 000
Flandern 25 000
latvia 25 000
estonia 15 000
norge 8 000
danmark 6 000
finland 4 000
sweden 300

non germanic countries
france 10 000
italy9 000
wallony 9000
switzerland 100
GB 100

Balkanic countries

no slaves

hungaria 40 000
romania 5 000
Albania 4 000
Greece 1 000

slaves

bosnia 20 000
slovenia 6 000
tchecoslovaquia 5 000
serbia 4 000
Bulgaria 3 000

Others eastern and asians

ukrainia 30 000
cossacks 30 000
russia 18 000
turkmenia 15 000
Bielorussia 10 000
tatars 10 000
georgia 3 000
Armenia 3 000
Uzbecks 2 000
Kirgiz 2 000

details : on jan 42 : 135 swiss and Lichtenstein
300 Alsace
250 Lorraine and Luxemburg



JG

Genghis
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Postby Genghis » 25 Oct 2005 02:13

I had no idea, Latvians, Lithuanians and Estonians were considered Germanic peoples.

Rob - wssob2
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Postby Rob - wssob2 » 25 Oct 2005 03:17

...The Estonians really belong to one of the few races than can, after the segregation of only a few elements, be merged with us without any harm to our people. A nation of 900,000 Estonians cannot survive independently. As a racially related nation, Estonia must join the Reich.


- Heinrich Himmler, quoted p. 76 SS-Wiking: The History of the 5th SS Panzer Division by Rupert Butler


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