Milice Francaise

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
Durand
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Milice Francaise

#1

Post by Durand » 24 Feb 2004, 20:34

Hallo,

I wish to learn about Joseph Darnand's Milice Francaise (MF). As I understand it, the MF was formed in early 1943 from another group headed by Darnand and that it was closely allied with the Gestapo or SS in spirit as well as practical terms. Can any members of the community please provide some information regarding the formation of the MF, it's organization, membership, and activities? Can anyone recommend any English language books on Joseph Darnand and/or the Milice Francaise?

Regards,

Durand

Ostuf Charlemagne
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#2

Post by Ostuf Charlemagne » 27 Feb 2004, 04:17

Closely allied with the gestapo !? Oh my friend it was really MORE complex than that...the militia was born as political formation to support the national revolution of marshall Petain .Their first tasks was to fight against black market and to help the population during aliies air bombings ...It took them MORE than 70 disarmed members murdereds by gaullists and communists before they considered to be armed .....When they asked for weapons ,president Laval opponed....telling them the germans won't never agreed ...the milice chiefs had a meeting at the Ersatzkommando der Waffen -SS (Recteur poincare street)
Germans agreed to authorise weapons if some milice troops would volunteer within the Waffen-SS....Indeed. Then the milice was armed with french army weapons leftover and what was captured from allies air drops ,Sten submachine guns, etc....


Ostuf Charlemagne
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#3

Post by Ostuf Charlemagne » 28 Feb 2004, 03:42

About the Milice Francaise , in don’t know of any english book with an accurate insight ( but you can always try http://www.axiseuropa.com) ...
in french lenguage the best books are “Histoire de la Milice” by Jacques Delpierrye,but it was published long time ago ,in 1970...The author is a resistantialist one but he tried his best to be impartial .
More recently ,two excellent books , “Darnand , la Mort en chantant” by Hughes Viel
and also “Siegfried et le Berrichon “ ,memories of Leon Gaultier (published in 1991.Leon Gaultier passed away in 1999.) who has been one of the founding members of the Milice and voluntered to the french SS sturmbrigade (Untersturmfuehrer), before the Milice was armed .... An excellent book ,with maybe only 30 pages about the Milice ,but really interesting since it is an inner point of view which reflected the complexities of the period.

In english ,STAY AWAY of the books of Paxton . This man presents a childish an oversimplified view ( Petain = Pro-nazi) and his books are ,at best , propagandistic work ,full of inaccuracies and mistakes ,to say the last . ( it is just beyond me how he can be considered an historian ,in the USA !! )

In fact ,Vichysts may be separed in different groups :

a – Collaborationnists like Joseph Darnand ( chief of the Milice), Benoist – Mechin (secretary of State) , Paul Marion ( secretary of Information) , Philippe Henriot (minister of Information ) , Darquier de Pellepoix (last secretary of Jewish affairs) , Henry Colson ( committee of investigation against the free-masonry- died in 2001) , colonel Puaud (last commander of LVF and later ,of the 33.SS) , Georges Guilbaud ( plenipotentiary in Tunisia ,1942 – and later french embassator in the RSI) , admiral Platon (chief of police in southwest France in 1944 ,murdered by communist partisans – much to the happiness of Laval ....) etc....

b – Pro-allies : general de la Porte du Theil (commander of Chantiers de la Jeunesse later deported in KL) , Dr. Menestrel (private adviser of Petain ) ,general –later marshall – de Lattre de Tassigny , Bousquet ( director of the police and secretary of security before to be succeeded by Darnand ) , general Weygand (minister of defense in 1941 ,the germans asked for his removal ) , Lachal (director of the Legion of the Fighters from which emerged the Milice - not to be confused with president Laval )
general Frere (commander of the ORA – Resistance Organisation of the Army , died in KL ) etc.....

c – anti-german fascists like Paul Jeantet (high functionary) and Xavier Vallat ( first secretary Jewish affairs ) , admiral Esteva ( vichyst governor of Tunisia ) etc ...

d – the ones who followed orders ,whatever they may be : admiral de Laborde who saborded the french fleet at Toulon in 1942 , general Nogues ,Morocco 1942 , general Dentz (Siria 1941 – died in a gaullist jail ) etc...

and , e) the opportunists weathercocks – the most contemptibles – pro /collaborationnists when it seemed Germany was winning the war ,and pro-allies later : like attorney Mornet ,who ,as president of the committee of Naturalisation , removed the french nationality of many jews ,and ,some months later ,was the man who judged and sentenced to death Marshall Petain .... admiral Darlan , murdered by the gaullists in Algiers ,1942 ..
or Francois Mitterand who would be ,much later, french president in 1981 .


Of course ,all these subtilities are well above the level of “historian” Paxton .

Even within the Milice ,it was different tendances ....in general the ones in the northern zone were more collaborationnist than the ones in the southern one ( where most were monarchists and ,of course anticommunists but also anti-germans...But that would disappear after the many communists crimes against the militiamen and the french people – slaughter of the Jourdan family and their baby in 1943 ,etc ... - )

Even when the Milice retreated in Germany and was drafted within the 33th SS Charlemagne , many of them denied to wear the german uniform ...those ones were regrouped around the “colomne de Limoges” (a battalion from southwest France) which was tasked as Honor Guard for Petain at Sigmaringen . Looking for a soldier’s death in 1945 after having been denied to join the Charlemagne , Darnand took command of this unit which was sent to HSSPF Karl Wolff in North Italy ,where Wolff was reluctant to use it ( not because he has doubts about their loyalty but because he was busy planning his betrayal to surrend the german forces in North italy ,against Hitler’s orders and without to notice to Mussolini --- having secret meetings with OSS chief Allen Dulles in Switzerland ...) untill Blackshirts general Onori asked for troops to defend the Valtellina ,the fascist alpine reduct .The Darnand battalion was sent there and fought 10 days against italian reds partisans ,along the Blackshirts column of major Vanna ...but that’s another story .....
Comebacking with the forming of the milice , the “birth” meeting of the milice was challenging ; Lachal ,of the Legion des Combattants tried to abort the movement ,saying : “ How ,when the times are rougher ,could we explain the birth of the milice within the Legion des Combattants of Marshall Petain ?(...) We have to be prudents. We are outside of the war . Our policy is not to enter the war (...) Let’s apply the wise reforms of the Marshall . Let’s obey ,blindly ,his orders (...) But don’t tempt the Devil!”
Then Darnand went to the stands and answered :
“ .... I have in my memory some speechs that we need to remember ‘’ Life is not neutral , the fight against the dissidence ,against capitalism and communism .(...)’’, these words are not mine ,but they are exactly what I think since years ago . But the Marshall never has consulted me for that . He expressed these words from himself . Do we have to add a restriction : Do not follow my orders !?
We must not go beyond his orders .But we must not stay short of them .To reach a crest is not to stay on the slope !”
Paul Marion and Abel Bonnard (minister of education) supported Darnand with their speechs ...President Laval ended the meeting with these words :
“ I know Mr.Churchill , I know Hitler ,I know Stalin .They all fights for their countries ..I do the same .(...) you can be sure that your loyalty won’t be profited by cheaters . Darnand will advise me of your problems and success .”
But if he looked verbally decided ,Laval wasn’t really happy ,neither ...(fearing an “ultra” coup d’etat against him .) Dilution tactics were used against the Milice by many ...The Milice was practically aborted when Lachal denied the money .According to Leon Gaultier ( in “Siegfried et le Berrichon”) :

“ It is necessary to fix the problem of the budget for the Milice .The president (Laval) has said : - “You are an emanation of the Legion des Combattants . They have to fix this problem .”
Cance has been pointed out to lead the talks .( Cance ,later to be commander of the 1st btl. of the french SS sturmbrigade – my note .) Lachal ,Jardel and three other persons are front of him ,not willing to solve anyhting .(...) Then Marshall Petain opens the door and enters :
“ What are you doing there ?
- Trying to solve the problem of the budget of the Milice , sir .
- Why is it so difficult ?
- Because of their demands ,sir .
- Of whom ?
- Of Darnand and Cance ,who is there .
- But Cance is alone !
- Yes, Marshall ...
- And you are five . It’s unfair . I side with him ; give him the money right now !”

So was born the milice .... About Marshall Petain, either if you want to show him as collaborationnist or as a resistant ,you will always find arguments ... So how was Petain,really ?...smarter than me the man who will discover it . Personally , I think that the problem of Petain is that he wasn’t a petainist ! No kidding .

About the Milice ,again .... It was surely not a Sipo-SD auxiliary force as you seem to believe . ( I knew a former french Sipo auxiliary . This man was surely NOT vichyst ! ) Captain Bassompierre (shot by gaullists firing squad in 1948) misthrusted the SS , confusing Waffen-SS and Sipo-SD , and he always opponed SS demands ....which is ironical since after being a LVF officer and a very high ranking of the Milice ,he would commands the 33. SS logistical battalion as an Hauptsturmfuehrer . What many readers and historians does not understand is that today perception of WW2 is not the same that the people has ,during the war ...
Different places ,different times and dates ,personnal motivations ,or perception,all that has influence on later events ...Also it is impossible to understand “collaboration” without to know –or remember – :
- some allies war crimes .
- The allies terror bombings ( 67.000 victims in France , 60.000 victims in Italy ) ...I know a guy who enlisted the Waffen-SS because his innocent family has been wholy exterminated during a raid of the US Air Force . Americans cannot understand it ,because their country has never been bombed . Now remember the emotion after the blowing of the towers in September 11th ...and “only” 2.000 vicitms ! (And all my personnal sympathy for the september 11th victims !) but in western Europe ,it was a LOT more .My own mother ,who was a child , remembers the US terroristic raid on Marseilles in 1944 , 1200 deads at once ,and she was looking at the remains of her school -friends up in the threes ,a foot ,a hand ... how would you feel ? At this moment peoples didn’t gave a damn if Hitler was bad and the jews deported ; they were pissed off with the ones who bombed them ! And these bombings were – and are – strategically stupids ,they strenghtened the german population to Hitler ,the serbian population to Milosevic and the iraqui population to Saddam Hussein . (You always loose soldiers there ,don’t you ? Maybe some of these iraquis partisans are not fanaticals but has just lost a relative , a son ,whoever , during the “surgical“bombings ... It was the same for many who enlisted the Milice ,since their task was to assist against air raids ,and not to be a “Gestapo force “.
- The provocations of the communists who were looking for a civil war ( and i’m talking for instance about France and Italy ) to facilite the red revolution after the war and their seizure of power ...which succeeded in Yougoslavia ,and later in Czechoslovaquia ,and has been near to succeed in France and Italy .
- Now ,and as an unpublished anecdote ,told to me by a vet who was there , in 1943 /44 ,a group of gaullists resistants was circled by a communist partisan force and they asked the help of the ..Milice ! It was Philippe Platon ( Always alive . Milice officer and son of the soon to be murdered admiral Platon ) who rescued them with his company !

Indeed these facts happened many times ,even if they were suppressed later by the official propaganda . And communist provocation and crimes existed too. They were one of the motives of the founding of the Milice .

NOTA :
I found a publisher for my book about allies war crimes ( thanks to God .... and to our friend Panzermahn ! ) .... rewritting it by now ....It will be published in english by the end of the year . There I won’t only talk about how and where were perpetrated these war crimes but ,also ,why ...
Which leads to descrive the many situations ,and by the way ,the forming of the Milice Francaise ,why and how ....( and lots of non-published before informations about the last fight of the french militiamen in the Valtellina - in chapter Italy .)
If it may interest you , p.m. me .

Durand
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Joined: 09 Jul 2002, 18:02
Location: USA

#4

Post by Durand » 29 Feb 2004, 14:54

Hallo O.C.,

You wrote:
Closely allied with the gestapo !? Oh my friend it was really MORE complex than that...
As I wrote, I wish to learn about Darnand and the Milice :) I have only ever read passing references to this organization and a search of the internet did not turn up much that was of value. I am also hampered by the fact that practically nothing of the two years of French I had as a schoolboy long ago has stayed with me. Thank you for the information and the recommendations. It is very interesting. I wish you luck with your book.

Best Regards,

Durand

Metatron
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Milice Francaise

#5

Post by Metatron » 01 Mar 2004, 03:11

Iknow that they took an oath
"Iundertake upon my honor to serve France even at the cost of my own
life I swear to devote all my strength to the triumph of the Revolution0
-ary ideals of the Milice Francais whose discioline I freely accept"

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Groscurth
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#6

Post by Groscurth » 01 Mar 2004, 05:05

You all know that lots of sought Germans after the war wen't to the Legion for a safe haven. The French collaborators of the millice could not (of course), for them their was only trial.
Darland killed while the war, Pétain exilled. But there was a 3th famous one that was executed after the war, forgot his name, ? Who?

Thank's for the info Charlemagne.

musec
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Milice Batallion in Italy - Uniform

#7

Post by musec » 01 Mar 2004, 10:27

Hello Charlemagne,

Can you provide any information on the uniform worn by the Milice Batallion serving in Italy?

Regards,

Clint Muse

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rh_LiteVixeN
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#8

Post by rh_LiteVixeN » 01 Mar 2004, 23:02

Ostuf Charlemagne wrote:About the Milice Francaise , in don’t know of any english book with an accurate insight ( but you can always try http://www.axiseuropa.com) ...
in french lenguage the best books are “Histoire de la Milice” by Jacques Delpierrye,but it was published long time ago ,in 1970...The author is a resistantialist one but he tried his best to be impartial .
More recently ,two excellent books , “Darnand , la Mort en chantant” by Hughes Viel
and also “Siegfried et le Berrichon “ ,memories of Leon Gaultier (published in 1991.Leon Gaultier passed away in 1999.) who has been one of the founding members of the Milice and voluntered to the french SS sturmbrigade (Untersturmfuehrer), before the Milice was armed .... An excellent book ,with maybe only 30 pages about the Milice ,but really interesting since it is an inner point of view which reflected the complexities of the period.

In english ,STAY AWAY of the books of Paxton . This man presents a childish an oversimplified view ( Petain = Pro-nazi) and his books are ,at best , propagandistic work ,full of inaccuracies and mistakes ,to say the last . ( it is just beyond me how he can be considered an historian ,in the USA !! )

In fact ,Vichysts may be separed in different groups :

a – Collaborationnists like Joseph Darnand ( chief of the Milice), Benoist – Mechin (secretary of State) , Paul Marion ( secretary of Information) , Philippe Henriot (minister of Information ) , Darquier de Pellepoix (last secretary of Jewish affairs) , Henry Colson ( committee of investigation against the free-masonry- died in 2001) , colonel Puaud (last commander of LVF and later ,of the 33.SS) , Georges Guilbaud ( plenipotentiary in Tunisia ,1942 – and later french embassator in the RSI) , admiral Platon (chief of police in southwest France in 1944 ,murdered by communist partisans – much to the happiness of Laval ....) etc....

b – Pro-allies : general de la Porte du Theil (commander of Chantiers de la Jeunesse later deported in KL) , Dr. Menestrel (private adviser of Petain ) ,general –later marshall – de Lattre de Tassigny , Bousquet ( director of the police and secretary of security before to be succeeded by Darnand ) , general Weygand (minister of defense in 1941 ,the germans asked for his removal ) , Lachal (director of the Legion of the Fighters from which emerged the Milice - not to be confused with president Laval )
general Frere (commander of the ORA – Resistance Organisation of the Army , died in KL ) etc.....

c – anti-german fascists like Paul Jeantet (high functionary) and Xavier Vallat ( first secretary Jewish affairs ) , admiral Esteva ( vichyst governor of Tunisia ) etc ...

d – the ones who followed orders ,whatever they may be : admiral de Laborde who saborded the french fleet at Toulon in 1942 , general Nogues ,Morocco 1942 , general Dentz (Siria 1941 – died in a gaullist jail ) etc...

and , e) the opportunists weathercocks – the most contemptibles – pro /collaborationnists when it seemed Germany was winning the war ,and pro-allies later : like attorney Mornet ,who ,as president of the committee of Naturalisation , removed the french nationality of many jews ,and ,some months later ,was the man who judged and sentenced to death Marshall Petain .... admiral Darlan , murdered by the gaullists in Algiers ,1942 ..
or Francois Mitterand who would be ,much later, french president in 1981 .


Of course ,all these subtilities are well above the level of “historian” Paxton .

Even within the Milice ,it was different tendances ....in general the ones in the northern zone were more collaborationnist than the ones in the southern one ( where most were monarchists and ,of course anticommunists but also anti-germans...But that would disappear after the many communists crimes against the militiamen and the french people – slaughter of the Jourdan family and their baby in 1943 ,etc ... - )

Even when the Milice retreated in Germany and was drafted within the 33th SS Charlemagne , many of them denied to wear the german uniform ...those ones were regrouped around the “colomne de Limoges” (a battalion from southwest France) which was tasked as Honor Guard for Petain at Sigmaringen . Looking for a soldier’s death in 1945 after having been denied to join the Charlemagne , Darnand took command of this unit which was sent to HSSPF Karl Wolff in North Italy ,where Wolff was reluctant to use it ( not because he has doubts about their loyalty but because he was busy planning his betrayal to surrend the german forces in North italy ,against Hitler’s orders and without to notice to Mussolini --- having secret meetings with OSS chief Allen Dulles in Switzerland ...) untill Blackshirts general Onori asked for troops to defend the Valtellina ,the fascist alpine reduct .The Darnand battalion was sent there and fought 10 days against italian reds partisans ,along the Blackshirts column of major Vanna ...but that’s another story .....
Comebacking with the forming of the milice , the “birth” meeting of the milice was challenging ; Lachal ,of the Legion des Combattants tried to abort the movement ,saying : “ How ,when the times are rougher ,could we explain the birth of the milice within the Legion des Combattants of Marshall Petain ?(...) We have to be prudents. We are outside of the war . Our policy is not to enter the war (...) Let’s apply the wise reforms of the Marshall . Let’s obey ,blindly ,his orders (...) But don’t tempt the Devil!”
Then Darnand went to the stands and answered :
“ .... I have in my memory some speechs that we need to remember ‘’ Life is not neutral , the fight against the dissidence ,against capitalism and communism .(...)’’, these words are not mine ,but they are exactly what I think since years ago . But the Marshall never has consulted me for that . He expressed these words from himself . Do we have to add a restriction : Do not follow my orders !?
We must not go beyond his orders .But we must not stay short of them .To reach a crest is not to stay on the slope !”
Paul Marion and Abel Bonnard (minister of education) supported Darnand with their speechs ...President Laval ended the meeting with these words :
“ I know Mr.Churchill , I know Hitler ,I know Stalin .They all fights for their countries ..I do the same .(...) you can be sure that your loyalty won’t be profited by cheaters . Darnand will advise me of your problems and success .”
But if he looked verbally decided ,Laval wasn’t really happy ,neither ...(fearing an “ultra” coup d’etat against him .) Dilution tactics were used against the Milice by many ...The Milice was practically aborted when Lachal denied the money .According to Leon Gaultier ( in “Siegfried et le Berrichon”) :

“ It is necessary to fix the problem of the budget for the Milice .The president (Laval) has said : - “You are an emanation of the Legion des Combattants . They have to fix this problem .”
Cance has been pointed out to lead the talks .( Cance ,later to be commander of the 1st btl. of the french SS sturmbrigade – my note .) Lachal ,Jardel and three other persons are front of him ,not willing to solve anyhting .(...) Then Marshall Petain opens the door and enters :
“ What are you doing there ?
- Trying to solve the problem of the budget of the Milice , sir .
- Why is it so difficult ?
- Because of their demands ,sir .
- Of whom ?
- Of Darnand and Cance ,who is there .
- But Cance is alone !
- Yes, Marshall ...
- And you are five . It’s unfair . I side with him ; give him the money right now !”

So was born the milice .... About Marshall Petain, either if you want to show him as collaborationnist or as a resistant ,you will always find arguments ... So how was Petain,really ?...smarter than me the man who will discover it . Personally , I think that the problem of Petain is that he wasn’t a petainist ! No kidding .

About the Milice ,again .... It was surely not a Sipo-SD auxiliary force as you seem to believe . ( I knew a former french Sipo auxiliary . This man was surely NOT vichyst ! ) Captain Bassompierre (shot by gaullists firing squad in 1948) misthrusted the SS , confusing Waffen-SS and Sipo-SD , and he always opponed SS demands ....which is ironical since after being a LVF officer and a very high ranking of the Milice ,he would commands the 33. SS logistical battalion as an Hauptsturmfuehrer . What many readers and historians does not understand is that today perception of WW2 is not the same that the people has ,during the war ...
Different places ,different times and dates ,personnal motivations ,or perception,all that has influence on later events ...Also it is impossible to understand “collaboration” without to know –or remember – :
- some allies war crimes .
- The allies terror bombings ( 67.000 victims in France , 60.000 victims in Italy ) ...I know a guy who enlisted the Waffen-SS because his innocent family has been wholy exterminated during a raid of the US Air Force . Americans cannot understand it ,because their country has never been bombed . Now remember the emotion after the blowing of the towers in September 11th ...and “only” 2.000 vicitms ! (And all my personnal sympathy for the september 11th victims !) but in western Europe ,it was a LOT more .My own mother ,who was a child , remembers the US terroristic raid on Marseilles in 1944 , 1200 deads at once ,and she was looking at the remains of her school -friends up in the threes ,a foot ,a hand ... how would you feel ? At this moment peoples didn’t gave a damn if Hitler was bad and the jews deported ; they were pissed off with the ones who bombed them ! And these bombings were – and are – strategically stupids ,they strenghtened the german population to Hitler ,the serbian population to Milosevic and the iraqui population to Saddam Hussein . (You always loose soldiers there ,don’t you ? Maybe some of these iraquis partisans are not fanaticals but has just lost a relative , a son ,whoever , during the “surgical“bombings ... It was the same for many who enlisted the Milice ,since their task was to assist against air raids ,and not to be a “Gestapo force “.
- The provocations of the communists who were looking for a civil war ( and i’m talking for instance about France and Italy ) to facilite the red revolution after the war and their seizure of power ...which succeeded in Yougoslavia ,and later in Czechoslovaquia ,and has been near to succeed in France and Italy .
- Now ,and as an unpublished anecdote ,told to me by a vet who was there , in 1943 /44 ,a group of gaullists resistants was circled by a communist partisan force and they asked the help of the ..Milice ! It was Philippe Platon ( Always alive . Milice officer and son of the soon to be murdered admiral Platon ) who rescued them with his company !

Indeed these facts happened many times ,even if they were suppressed later by the official propaganda . And communist provocation and crimes existed too. They were one of the motives of the founding of the Milice .

NOTA :
I found a publisher for my book about allies war crimes ( thanks to God .... and to our friend Panzermahn ! ) .... rewritting it by now ....It will be published in english by the end of the year . There I won’t only talk about how and where were perpetrated these war crimes but ,also ,why ...
Which leads to descrive the many situations ,and by the way ,the forming of the Milice Francaise ,why and how ....( and lots of non-published before informations about the last fight of the french militiamen in the Valtellina - in chapter Italy .)
If it may interest you , p.m. me .
That was very interesting,
thanks :)

Durand
Member
Posts: 1215
Joined: 09 Jul 2002, 18:02
Location: USA

#9

Post by Durand » 02 Mar 2004, 01:21

Hallo,

Since last I wrote I was able to do some more digging at of all places-- the library! :D Unfortunately, I found only one book (it is a small library) regarding the occupation of France. The title is "France: The Dark Years, 1940-1944" by Julian Jackson. I have not, as yet, been able to read the entire book, but I have mined the index for information on Darnand and the Milice. There is not much information on Darnand and some overlaps with what O.C. has provided above, but I thought perhaps those members of the community reading the thread may find the following to be of interest.

According to Jackson, Darnand was interested in more than creating a paramilitary force. His goal was to develop the Milice as a fascist-style movement. There were at least three sections in the Milice: one, for members who held regular employment and volunteered time to the Milice each week; one for youth; and a permanently mobilized military section living in barracks. In terms of its ideals, the Milice was, among other things, anti-democratic, anti-capitalist, anti-bolshevist, anti-Jewish, and pro-Christian.

The Milice was banned in the northern zone. As O.C. pointed out, in the beginning it had difficulties obtaining weapons. By June 1943, Darnand had become frustrated to the point of making overtures to the Free French, but apparently without success. In August 1943, Darnand pledged his loyalty to Hitler and was a made a Sturmbannführer in the SS. As a result, he gained SS support and the Milice received arms and money from the SS.

The Milice had 25,000 to 35,000 members.

Darnand's attempted interaction with the Free French is particularly interesting. Can anyone in the community elaborate on this episode?

Best Regards,

Durand

Ostuf Charlemagne
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Location: Honduras

#10

Post by Ostuf Charlemagne » 05 Mar 2004, 05:18

Hi friends .....


Uniforms in Italy : Same as in France . Blue uniforms ,kaki shirt ,blue beret . This uniform is pretty much the same than french alpine troops (even today ) and Darnand was a former alpine troops officer .

Darnand surrendered to the italians partisans after having spend all his ammo,and well after the germans and fascists surrenders .The partisans granted the french militiamen a safe pass to Switzerland .As soon as they were prisonners ,many were shots by partisans firing squads. (At last 21 militiamen shots at Tirano village) and their woundeds achieved .Seing that ,Darnand managed to escape .He found refuge within a monk’s convent and it is under a monk disguise that he was recaptured ...by June 25th 1945 .He was given back to the gaullists . Suffered beatings and insults by french soldiers .Sentenced to death ,assisted spiritually by his friend the priest Bruckberger (who has served within the Darnand ‘s free corps against the germans in 1940 – the only french unit ever to have invaded german territory in 1940 ,and they did it twice .First for the recon mission ,were Lt.Agnely ,best friend of Darnand was killed .Then Darnand comebacked with two volunteers inside german territory to find the corpse of Agnely and bring it back ,which they did .) Later ,Bruckberger was gaullist .De Gaulle denied Darnand his perdon .Indeed Darnand ,as a prisonner has sent a letter to De Gaulle ,not to ask for his grace ,but to ask the grace to the militiamen who were jailed .
At his process he covered his men “- I will cover everything ,including the commas and the dots . I am the only responsable .”
The night before his execution ,he wrote a long letter for his men :
“_ We had proclaimed that the salvation of France could only be by the way of a revolution. Others thought it possible by the resistance . Now they srikes at us because we have been at the vanguard of the anticommunist fight .(...)
No one has suffered more than me because of the war between brothers which enbloodied our soil during 4 years .If Iasked you to take the weapons ,it was to self protect us against the attacks we suffered first .
Militiamen ,I dreamed of another destiny for you all . I imposed you the soldier’s discipline .I asked you a lot .Today I ask you to close your resentment ,your pain ,as your tribute for a necesary reconciliation .Tomorrow ,as yesterday ,give your support to the ones who may rebuild the country .
I will die with a sonrise because Iknow that you will obey me .”

Darnand was shot by a firing squad of alpine troops since –as it is mandatory by french military regulations - ,when they gone shoot somebody ,the firing squad must be formed by men of the same arm.
It was October 10th 1945, 9 a.m.
Darnand looked at the firing squad and said to them :”You are looking sharp .You could have been my soldiers !” ,he denied the band on the eyes and asked authorisation to give the commanding voice of Fire ...which was granted . He yelled “- Aim to the heart .Long life to France ! Fire !”

Marshall petain wasn’t exilied .From Sigmaringen he went to Switzerland and De Gaulle authorized the swiss government to give him a political asylum.But the marshall insisted to comeback in France to justify himself .he was processed ...the judges didn’t study the files . Seing the ambience ,he denied to defend himself or to say a word ,saying that “a marshall of France don’t ask grace to anyone .” ...he said also “ My life dosn’t matter .I already gave it to France .If you gone sentence me ,I hope that my sentence will be the last one and that no more frenchman be sentenced to have obeyed the orders of his legitime chief.”
He would stans trial without a word ,but comebacking to his cell,he will says :”This trial is not boring ,I learn a lot of things .”
Sentenced to death ,but the sentence was reduced to life imprisonment because of his old age (90). In 1948 he was very weak and was loosing his memory . Many peoples asked for his liberation . Gaullist Yves Farge ,high ranking of government said :”To liberate Petain is to rehabilitate Hitler.”
More funny ,a man called Albert Bayet who has never been a resistant (I don’t know if he was a journalist or a government man ,something like that ) said :_” If Petain comeback to the power ,I swear solemnly that I will enters the clandestinity “.... (better late than never .)

The government ( in fact the jews Jules Moch and Rene Mayer ,government high rankings )sent a coffin to the jail and instructions to Charles Boulay ,director of the jail: “- The certificate of death will have to mentione the day and hour of the death ,but no indication of profession ,neither his rank.Mrs.Petain will be the only one allowed to see the corpse in the coffin .He will be buried in civilian suit .” ...etc...
But Petain don’t died this time .In january 1949 ,he lost memory and said “- Why am I here ? What did I do ? (...) So I was the chief of state ? And it is way they put me here ?!”
(source : “Petain ,gloire et sacrifice “ by general ret.Jacques Le Groignec,
Nouvelles Editions Latines ,1991.)
By June 1951 ,Petain is allowed to left the prison ,but he will stay under vigilance into a private house of the island were stands the prison....he die one month later ,July 23rd 1951 at 96. In his agony he cameback to the WW1,yelling :" They scream in the trenches ...!”

President of parliament ,Henri Queuille authorized him to be buried in uniform ,with the assistence of the family and the lawyers .It was possible because De Gaulle was not in power anymore .

A third one ,”famous” ,who was shot ????? Civilian or militiaman ??

Maybe you talk of Pierre Laval ,Petain’s premier ? Refuged in Spain.
Then Franco ,who was under preissure of the allies advised him that he could stay only 3 months in Spain . That if in three months the allies exiged his extradition ,he would be delivered to them ...but that he won’t be extradited to France .In the meanwhile the spaniards hold a plane ready to Laval for go to either Argentine or Irland .Indeed De Valera ,Irish premier granted asylum to Laval .But Laval was advised by his wife to comeback to defend himself in court .A lethal mistake .As soon as started his process ,a judge yelled at him :” You will get 12 bullets in the skin !”
He answered :” – Kill me right now ,it will be clearer.”
The judges yelled him :”- Bastard ,bastard !”
As would write ,later ,Louis Nogueres ( in “La Haute Cour de la Liberation”,editions de Minuit.) :” – The judges had forgotten the dignity of their mission ,they went down to threat and insult him...”
Laval understood that it was not a process but a masquerade of justice ...
He denied to attend the process and let his lawyer stands alone .By the way ,all the witnesses that his lawyer wanted to call were denied to come by the judges. Inside the jail he was forced to wears chains at his feet all time long (3,3 kgs weight .) ....sentenced to death .His three lawyers went to see De gaulle and talked 7 minutes ,asking for a new ,fair ,trial . De Gaulle answered :”Is that all what you have to say ,gentlemen ? Goodbye !”. The night before his execution he took cyanide ,but De Gaulle denied to see Laval escape from his claws,and straight orders were given . Let’s a witness descrive what happened ; Francois Brigneau was a militiaman ,he was in the cell front at the cell of Laval and he saw all what happened -(after years in jail ,Brigneau –who is always alive –will be an international reporter ,journalist and writer. He is also one of my best sources about the Milice .The following is from his book :“39/40 L’annee terrible” Publications FB,1990.)

“ – Everybody panicked .(...) Some went to look for orders .They were soon evidents : Laval was to be resuscited to be shot .Within the walls of the prison ,after 2 hours 30 of washing of stomach ,the ritual murder happened at the back of the jail’s third division.
The whole jail of Fresnes was yelling : “Assassins ,assassins !”
Terrible symbol ; the soldiers of the firing squad were wearing british uniforms (...) Laval has strenght to yells :”-Long life to France !”
It was over . Not really . When they put him into the coffin ,he was still moving .”

Shot 4 days before Darnand .

About Milice men ,yes ,a lot were shot ( like a cousin of my dad ,who was the militiaman who shot former minister Mandel with his own hand ...but that’s another story .) Here the fate of some of the staff of the Milice :

- Georges Radici , War Cross 1940 (against the germans) with palms .
Shot in 1947 ,33 old .

- Max Knipping ,air force colonel ,two world air records ,War Crosses
1914/18 and 39/40. Shot in 1947.

- Raymond Clemoz, Merchant Marine captain . Shot in 1947 .43 old .

- Maurice Bertheux ,ex- college professor .Died in jail from bad treatments,at 34 age ,in 1948 .

The germans gave money to the Milice ? mmmh .... I doubt it .
At first they didn’t give weapons ,neither .The milice asked their authorisation to be armed, not for weapons ...the first weapons were french ones from the –dissolved –petainist army . Later they would receive Sten smgs ,captured by the germans on allies air drops ,yes .
Our american friend says that Darnand wanted to form a fascist party from the Milice ...yes and no ....
The “United Party” was a collaborator’s dream .... Too much parties within the collaboration and no chief wanting to let his seat to another one ...Minister Jacques Benoist-Mechin tried to do it ,by the way of an armed force ,the short lived Legion Tricolore (in 1942) tasked to reconquist the french colonial empire after the allies invasion in north Africa ... Petain dismised Benoist –Mechin on the spot and the 500 first volunteers of the Legion Tricolore were versed by the germans into the LVF....
Besides ,Darnand and the vichysts would had never rallied the members of Jacques Doriot PPF (French Popular Party) – by far the most numerous and strongest collaborator party which manned mainly the LVF (another motive which pushed Darnand to full the SS Sturmbrigade with militiamen ,for not to see this unit becomes a PPF one .)
In fact ,the french fascist union happened ...much too late ,in the last days of the war ,in Sigmaringen ,Germany ,when Doriot and Darnand reached an agreement in virtue of which the vichyst collaborationnists ,the RNP party of Marcel Deat and the Francist Party of Marcel Bucard would join and recognize Doriot as undeniable leader of the “Committeee for Liberation”. (read ; the fascist liberation of France ,occupied by the allies ).And that what before the “strange” death of Doriot ,few days later ....
I think that Darnand was trying to form a new french army (the french army has been dissolved after the german invasion of the southern zone .)That’s the reason for what marshall Petain has said : “-Militiamen ,you are my soldiers !” ...sure ...it was no more french army .
That’s also the motives of the contacts of Darnand with the gaullists ...but after more than 70 militiamen – with no weapons –murdereds by gaullists and communists ,this was an utopy .

more to follow ....

Ostuf Charlemagne
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#11

Post by Ostuf Charlemagne » 05 Mar 2004, 05:22

Yes ,the milice was split in 3 parts .(Much like the Waffen –SS , the Allgemeine SS and the NAPOLA).
The general ,political milice ,not armed and political part time service .
Then the “Franc-garde” armed formation to keep order .They were paid : a private has the salary of a police corporal . Strenght : 15.000 men .
And the Young Militia : childs of 14 ...which would be,later, a problem ‘cause it was not possible to enlist those in the Charlemagne SS division .
They provened form the “Youth of France and Ultramarine “ JFOM,of Jean-Marcel Renault who melted his youth movement within Darnand’s milice .
About the contacts with Darnand and resistance ,well ....it has to do because of the “Hood” (La Cagoule).... and to explain the “Hood” we have to comeback to the massacre of February 6th 1934 in Paris ,when the police oppened fire against the war veterans ...and to explain that ,we have to explain the Stavisky and Prince affairs .
I don’t plan to use this forum as marketing for my book (which is not published yet ,btw...) but you must understand that actions are related with events ,one thing bring the other thing and so on .... I can’t even try to explain ,in my book it took me 15 pages to make a summary !
(But an informed one ,since I know a man who was member of the “Hood”,and later to be an undercover french agent of the Marine Abwehr .The massacre of february 6th 1934 has to do with the Crosses of Fire ..and my grandfather was Cross of Fire . By the way ,Darnand was present at the February 6th night . Also ,and by the way again ,I meet a man in 1977 who was the former chief of the Milice bodyguards of Joseph Darnand ...just for the anecdote ,he drived a mercedes car with a big “Germany” sticker .No kidding .
Basically –and to makes short – the Hood ,in fact the Secret Committee for Revolutionnary Action ,was an illegal ultra right-wing armed group whose task was to oppose any communist coup ( 1936 –it was the time of the “Popular Front” government of allied socialists and communists and of the spanish civil war too ....)
Darnand was a prominent member of the “Hood”. When WW2 ,the defeat and Vichy ,the “Hood” splitted ; half of them went to the resistance ,half to the collaboration ,Milice ,LVF and SS..but it may interest you to know that Colonel Passy ,chief of De Gaulle intelligence –in London- was a former member of the “Hood”. So they kept contact among them ,one way or other, and THERE are the contacts between Milice and non-communist resistance .
Don’t try to find a good book about it ,YOU WILL NEVER FIND THAT IN A TODAY FRENCH BOOK .(And surely not in this period of political correctness !) Now ,to give you a testimony ,best to go to “Siegfried et le berrichon”of Leon Gaultier :

“ Max –Durand –Fardel street where are the headquarters of the Milice at Vichy is always busy ,peoples coming back and forth .But a troop of ten militiamen and eight army officers call the attention.
At his office ,Darnand is alone .The door is half open .
- Ah! That’s you ,come in. Don’t you find anyone on your way ?
- (...) A troop of 20 guys ,officers and militiamen .
- Yes that’s right .Do you know why they came ?
- No.
- They came to ask us to free them of the communists.Yes.They asked mysteriously for a meeting ,this morning .Noel feared an attempt. We frisked them downstairs ...

Noel enters . (Noel de Tissot . Later Obersturmfuehrer of the SS franz.Sturmbrigade and kdr.of 1st Co. missing in action at the battle of Sanok ,Ukrania,July 1944. – my note )

-They told us they belong to a secret movement .They says they are our adversaries.But they don’t want to be confused with the communists who established a camp at some hundreds meters of them .

- Don’t tell me they came to ask our help ?
- Yes !They came to tell us that if the communists are too numerous and wants to seize their camp ,they will call us .
- So we gone be for terrorists against others terrorists,because it’s that ,some terrorists asks for our protection ?
- Oh! do not employ severe words ....
- Do you think we can separe them in good ones and bad ones ? says Noel. If they are right ,we are wrong .If they are wrong ,all of them are wrong. There is no possible deal .

Then Darnand saids : - To love a country is a tough thing .We love it through ourselves .And what is oneself ? The coincidence ,the guts ,a rythm ,a vanity and a pride with a peel of reason to order everything .
Someday the frenchmen will have to love each other again .”

Also in “The frenchmen under german helmet” (Les francais sous le casque allemand” edit.Jacques Grancher 1994, by my friend Gerard Le Marec – and Pierre –Philippe Lambert ) , talking about the coming at the Charlemagne of Pierre Cance ,militia officer ,sturmbannfuehrer who commanded the sturmbrigade in Ukrania ,EKII. :

“ Cance is not the chief wanted by Krukenberg . He is a loyal friend of Darnand ,very anticommunist who had in 1943 meetings with the ORA to establish contacts between Darnand and Groussard .These talks were a failure . Then Cance and some of his friends enlisted within the Waffen-SS.
Krukenberg knows all that .
Under the motive of the health of Cance who has to pass ,the next day ,front at a medical visit - which result is evident – Krukenberg choose another militiaman , Victor de Bourmont . Cance his sent as professor of tactics at the SS Junkerschule of Neweklau .”

My notes : The ORA was the petainist Organisation of Resistance of the Army . They did a lot of things but De Gaulle and the post war historians vanished them ....
Colonel Groussard was a former member of the “Hood” ( ah! ah!) since when he was commander of the St-Cyr military school .Chief of Vichy army intelligence in 1940/41. Took advantage of his post to form a pro-allies spy network. When the germans invaded the south of France in 1942 ,he went to Switzerland from where he would run his network who worked for the british intelligence service .

I told you ,guys ,all that is really complex ,and you don’t have even ten percent of the story here ...

About no safe runner for militians and germans in french foreign legion ,basically yes ....but don’t forget the BILOM.
In 1949/50 it was formed a BILOM ( Ultramarine Light Infantry Battalion) exclusively with formers milicians ,SS and LVF . In total 300 men who volunteered from the jails .They were sent to Indochina (frenchVietnam War) in the most rotten places ,for the most dangerous mission ...the army denied them medicine . They were commanded by former FTP (communist partisans) officers – who many times were cowards ,who many times feels more sympathies for the communists viets “enemies” – and who in all cases were militarily not up to their men whom they hated deeply - . ..... Hello the ambience ! ....

A good friend of mine ,Unterscharfuehrer Andre Bayle (former SS but not milician ) remembers about that when he was in jail (in his book “De Marseille a Novossibirsk” published by the author ,1992):
“ I was incurable , but I refused always to go to fight for the opportunists camaleons politicians who wanted to send us to fight bolshevism in Indochina after having jailing us because we had fought bolshevism in Russia . How to accept such incoherences ? (...)
but some of my comrades listened to those songs of sirens to see their fate between the hands of chiefs who were war criminals.”

Of the BILOM’s 300 men ,only 15 would survive . There is a book about it : “ Le bataillon des reprouves” by major ret.Raymond Muelle. edit.Presses de la Cite .

Even worse ,at the same time a congressman (he was a priest ...I think it was the only french priest ever to have been a congressman ,just because he is left-wing ) Pierre Groues talked to the parliament , he wanted that the french government stops paying the fees of the repatriation of the corpses of the soldiers of the BILOM who died for France in Indochina ,since they were collaborators .
(Later he would be famous as “Father Pierre “ and he is today very active standing for the right of marriage for homosexuals , defending illegals aliens and so on ... He wasn’t so “tolerant” in 1950 ,but the guy is mediatic and nobody in France would have the guts to remember him that .)

Ostuf Charlemagne
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#12

Post by Ostuf Charlemagne » 05 Mar 2004, 05:26

The milice desfiling in Paris....
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Durand
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#13

Post by Durand » 05 Mar 2004, 22:28

Hallo O.C.,

Thank you for providing yet another very interesting and informative set of posts.

O.C. wrote:
Darnand looked at the firing squad and said to them :”You are looking sharp .You could have been my soldiers !” ,he denied the band on the eyes and asked authorisation to give the commanding voice of Fire ...which was granted . He yelled “- Aim to the heart .Long life to France ! Fire !”
Darnand certainly had a very confident and powerful personality. What was his reputation among his men and among his enemies?

If I understand it correctly, in your forthcoming book you will be looking at some events involving the Milice. Are you also providing background on the Milice?

Best Regards,

Durand

Ostuf Charlemagne
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#14

Post by Ostuf Charlemagne » 06 Mar 2004, 03:08

About about background of the Crosses of Fire ,Feb.6th 34 , the Hood, the milice ,yes ,among many other things ...

About the personnality of J.Darnand ,I gone see in my archives ,I have some commentaries of peoples who knew him .See you .

Luca
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#15

Post by Luca » 06 Mar 2004, 21:49

Ostuf Charlemagne wrote:.Seing that ,Darnand managed to escape .He found refuge within a monk’s convent and it is under a monk disguise that he was recaptured ...by June 25th 1945.
I don't remember well the exact history but my brother can add some informations next week, infact Darnand was captured in my little mountain village.
Luca

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