lithuanian waffen ss

[ninoo]

Hi,

about 3-4,000 Lithuanians who served in the Waffen-SS

Ups, sorry...I think I made mistake about this numbers No, there is no list about Lithuanians in Waffen-SS. Maybe when I write it some numbers from another nationality in Waffen SS flash in my mind.

Maybe I'm wrong about the credibility of the sources that I read because the topic is very obscure. That's why I'm tried to get help from somebody that maybe knowing about the issue.
BTW, here one sources that I read about Lithuanians in Waffen-SS:

Aside from the above mentioned 38 units, there were also five Lituanische Bau-Bataillonen numbered I-V that were formed during 1943. All five units were attached to German Pioneer units under the control of Armeegruppe Nord. The commanding officers were all Lithuanian. The operations of these units consisted largely of road and railway construction and the building of defensive works. Initially, the units were not armed, but as partisan activity became increasingly heavier they were provided various light weapons to protect and fight against the partisan forces. Interestingly, many members of the Lithuanian construction units were asked to join the Waffen-SS, of which up to 40% eventually did, although no Lithuanian national unit was ever formed under the Waffen-SS, and all volunteers served on an individual basis.

from: "Lithuanian Volunteers in the German Wehrmacht in WWII"
by Jason Pipes. http://www.feldgrau.com/lith.html

Best Regards

Bless the people who like to help others.

[Volklin]

This thread really interests me, because i am Lithuanian. This is actually the first time i've seen a thread with the title having Lithuania in it in this forum, or any other WWII forum for that matter.

[Lit.]

Catholic Faith is only one of the main reasons, why Lithuanians were not willing to collaborate with the new "liberators"- Germany. Having ones of the most reliable soldiers in Europe, having their own huge "accounts" on Russia and Bolshevism, Lithuania remain the worst collaborators in whole Europe towards their new "liberators".
One of the other main reasons - was the mentality of the Lithuanian nation. If you look back at our latest history (at least from the times when our younger neighbors - Slavic tribes appeared), you’ll see that Lithuanians are always better prefer to rule their own country and fight for their own freedom than to be ruled by others and fight for some other's stupid reasons.

Even a couple of days before 16. Armee “advance Across the Niemen (have to be - Nemunas) River and Capture of Kovno (have to be – Kaunas)”, as they say in http://www.feldgrau.com/AOK.php?ID=15 , Lithuania was liberated by Lithuanians. And Germans marched not in the Baltic State occupied by the Soviets, but in to the free European State with their own Government. Meeting none or very poor pockets of resistance of some few leftovers of running Red Army. Whole nation uprising in Lithuania made our country free. More than 4000 Lithuanian freedom fighters felt in this uprising.

But when Germans came in and after couple of weeks forced to step back our own Government, starting to organize genocide and all the shit, that fascism is famous of, Lithuanians were conscious enough to oppose collaboration on much possible scale.

They did fight with the Bolsheviks on German side, and did it well. But always reserving their main strength to free their own country as the right moment occurs. Lithuanians always did knew that Germans were the good soldiers, but only on the very short run. They also new how to fight and rule Russians (they did it pretty well not so long before, for several hundred years).

This is why organized resistance to the Soviet occupation in Lithuania (1944-1953, 1965) was the largest, longest and most effective of all Baltic States. We have 23.000 victims of freedom fighters felt, but NKVD-KGB lost in this forest war about 10 times more. The main result of this heavy resistance is our demographic situation now. Russians fail to colonize Lithuania, as did in Latvia, for example.
http://members.fortunecity.com/heavy_metal_lt/

[Volklin]

In Lithuania, My grandpa volunteered for the Red Army in '43 and stayed in as occupation force until the 50s.

[Lit.]

In Lithuania, My grandpa volunteered for the Red Army in '43 and stayed in as occupation force until the 50s.

It is not true. Because in 1943 Lithuania was occupied by Germans then. So your grandpa joined the Red Army not in Lithuania and came to it as occupant. He was lucky not met those brave men from above.

What was his full name?

[Volklin]

Ack, you are right, at first he talked to me something about freedom fighters in '43, so i assumed, but he joined in '44.

But he told me he was ordered to be as occupation until the very 50s they didn't let him out of service. He threw away his old uniform because, my grandma told me it smelled like stinking gasonline or something. Though he still has his rifle, an automatic, not sure what it is though.

[ninoo]

Hi Friends,

Volklin, nice to meet you
and Lit, thanks a million times for your great infos. Now I got many knowledge about Lithuanian during WW II. BTW, did you know about the story of 4,000 Lithuanian militia that rebel against their's German master when the Red Army back to Lithuania in 1944. What the unit that they were belong?

Best Regards,

Bless the people who like to help others.

[Lit.]

Ack, you are right, at first he talked to me something about freedom fighters in '43, so i assumed, but he joined in '44.

This is not true again. The Lithuanian Freedom Fighters appear not in 1943, but in summer of 1944, when actually Soviets reoccupied Lithuania.

You have to learn your homeland history, kid, not from your grandfathers "tales". Sorry. There were no "volunteers" to join the Red Army among Lithuanians. If they get new recruits in occupied Lithuania – only by terror and brutal force.

By the way: today Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians are commemorating the first mass deportations made by Communists, that took place in all 3 occupied Baltic States in 14th of June 1941.

“During the mass deportation campaign in Lithuania of June 14-18, 1941, about 7,439 families (12,600 people) were deported to Siberia without investigation or trial; 3,600 people were imprisoned, and more than 1,000 massacred.”

With a.m. Stalin helped Hitler to get more Baltic support to his troops. It is not clear and unfair to call it – “collaboration”, especially to the great number of the Latvians and Estonians, who fought against worst Evil within the ranks of other one.

[Volklin]

I can tell you that my grandpa did join the Red Army in 1944, arguing is impossible. How do you call me a kid? With your same notion i could call you a kid too.

[Lit.]

I can tell you that my grandpa did join the Red Army in 1944, arguing is impossible. How do you call me a kid? With your same notion i could call you a kid too.

I didn't mean to insult you calling you a "kid". I just think that you are a "kid" in knowing history of your own homeland. There is even a popular saying telling the same about not knowing the history.

Concerning your grandpa joining the Reds. I have no doubt about that fact. I don't believe he made it voluntarily. This was the main point of my comment.

Today in Lithuania a day of sad commemoration again. Today we remember the 15th of June in 1940, when Russians occupied Lithuania. Here is a picture below of Soviet light tanks BT-5 (with removed caterpillars) entering the “Alley of Freedom” in Kaunas, former capital of independent Lithuania. Stalin was planing to attack Europe and “make Proletarian Revolutions” in all the rest of Europe with those and other tanks, just 2 weeks later after Hitler made it first. The Red Army and weaponry was built and targeted not to defend, but to attack. The same was with Germany. Hitler was a two weeks faster to start all the mess. You can read more about it in “Icebreaker: Who Started the Second World War?” by Viktor Suvorov, former officer of GRU.

[Reichskriegsgericht]

I better suggest to read such historians as Petras Stankeras and Arunas Bubnys together with “A History of the Lithuanian Military Forces in World War II 1939-1945” by Henry L. Gaidis. Lithuanian Research and Studies Center, Inc., Vydunas Fund, Inc. - Chicago, Illinois, 1998 m., 300 pages.

Any website were I can buy this book? I suppose the Stankeras/Bubnys book is not available in English or German?

Hans Werner Neulen's standard work in German language lists no lithuanian Waffen-SS units (Neulen, An deutscher Seite, Internationale Freiwillige von Wehrmacht und Waffen-SS, Universitas Verlag, 1992.

The chapter on Lithuania is app. 5-6 pages only, but he mentions the fact that the Lithuanians managed to liberate large parts of their country without German help. He says app. 100.000 Lithuanians joined the liberation forces, 4000 were killed, 8000 were wounded.

He also writes about the stupidity of the German civil government which managed to turn down potential allies, who were willing to fight with the Germans, provided that they were fighting for a free Lithuania, not a german governed state.

Robert Stuhr

[Lit.]

Any website were I can buy this book? I suppose the Stankeras/Bubnys book is not available in English or German?

Robert Stuhr

Some articles (look at the end of each article - English summaries) by Arunas Bubnys you can find in the Lithuanian magazine "Genocidas ir Rezistencija":

http://www.genocid.lt/Leidyba/zurnalas.htm

Petras Stankeras book is in Lithuanian only with short summary in English:

http://www.genocid.lt/Leidyba/anons2.htm

I don't know about possibilities to buy on the net. But you can check:
http://www.books.lt and http://www.patogupirkti.lt

http://www.patogupirkti.lt/book/book.as ... 6-757-59-2 etc.

Regards

[Lit.]

Any website were I can buy this book? I suppose the Stankeras/Bubnys book is not available in English or German?

Robert Stuhr

Just to add to upper comment: Petras Stankeras enriched and corrected book:

"Lithuanian Police 1941-1944"
http://www.genocid.lt/Leidyba/anons2.htm

is planning to be issued in Poland soon, in Polish language.

By the way, I'd like to mention also very good novel (mainly based on author's autobiography) "Negandu metai" by brave warrior and talented writer Jonas Lauce.
This is the best war novel in Lithuanian language I ever read. Hopefully some time will be translated in English and other European languages. Jonas Lauce (gone few years ago) was veteran of 5th Lithuanian police battalion, which battle way tragically ended up in Kurland. Just before capitulation of "unbeatable" German army, 11 Lithuanian soldiers were sent to camp and 7 men of this battalion were executed by Germans, in front of their colleagues, because they helped Latvian civilians to escape from terror to Sweden by Baltic see.

Arunas Bubnys: "The disbanding of the battalion was painful: seven troops were court-martialled by the Nazis, 11 sent to hard labour camps and prisons; others were transferred to the 13th and 256th battalions. The Nazis did not resort to such drastic measures against any other Lithuanian police battalion."
http://www.genocid.lt/Leidyba/9/arunas.htm

Jonas Lauce wrote this book during Soviet occupation and there was extremely dangerous and brave action. He was sent to jail by terrorists of KGB for his confiscated manuscript. And after he came out, he finished his book, still in occupied conditions. After occupation, he also wrote short story of 5th battalion, issued as "thin" book, in Lithuanian only.

[AAA]

Question for Lit.,

0n 26 FEB 43 the reich commisar in Lithuania von Renteln published a call for Lithuanians to join a Lithuania volunteer SS legion, that this completely failed and repressions followed? Ie that Germany did intend to form a Lithuanian SS legion in 1943 but failed utterly?

Such information has been published in Latvia as part of a ongoing debate on our own SS legion. Comments?

[Lit.]

Hi guys,
control link: http://www.lituanus.org/1986/86_4_02.htm

Bestreg.
Jarek

The answer is "yes". You just have to read this a.m. article in "Lituanus":

"This, of course, infuriated the Germans. They retaliated against the Lithuanians harshly. Renteln ordered 46 prominent figures, including those who voiced their opposition in the meeting, to be deported to the Stutthof concentration camp near Danzig. The arrests and deportations occurred March 25-26, 1943. A list of these individuals, including the author, is given in the appendix. In addition, many schools of higher education were closed. These included the universities in Kaunas and Vilnius, the Lithuanian Academy of Arts and Sciences, the Academies of Veterinary Medicine and Agricultural Sciences, the Art School, the Institute of Education, the Institute of Applied Arts, the Vilnius Philharmonium, the Conservatory of Music, the Teachers' Seminar.

Later, the Germans no longer tried to establish a Lithuanian SS legion, calling the Lithuanians worthless. Such a nation was too morally weak to belong to the SS. The Gestapo (Geheime Staatspolizei, German secret police) publicly blamed the Lithuanian intelligentsia for being too numerous and hindering the German war effort. The Gestapo also threatened to send additional members of the intelligentsia to concentration camps. A group of 16 journalists was deported to Stutthof in April 1943. Threats were made to bring two SS legions to Lithuania to teach the Lithuanians a lesson. The Lithuanian administration, composed of councilors, was threatened with replacement by a government based on the German-imposed Polish model. "

Among those 46 intellectuals that were deported to Stutthof, most were very outstanding figures. For example writer Balys Sruoga.
http://anthology.lms.lt/texts/38/autor.html
He wrote his famous memoirs about Stutthof "Dievu miskas" ("Forest of the Gods") after this.
http://www.booksfromlithuania.lt/main.a ... &BookID=77
"The manuscript of Forest of the Gods was banned from publication by Stalin regime as a „cynical ridicule of the victims of German invaders“. It was first published in 1957, ten years after the death of Balys Sruoga."

And this is masterpiece of it's kind worth much more than just Nobel prize. It have been translated in other languages.
This original book on the net is here:
http://katekizmas.group.lt/text/sruoga/00.htm

A few chapters from the English translation is here:
http://www.lituanus.org/1974/74_4_01.htm

Another famous Lithuanian was our air forces captain Jonas Noreika - (General „Storm"). After release from Stutthof he went to command and fight with Russians. He met with Jonas Semaska (see my posts before) in that war. In 1947 Jonas Noreika was executed by US, GB,... allies in KGB prison, in Vilnius.