Eesti leegion

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
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Mait
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Eesti Leegion

Postby Mait » 04 Jul 2002 06:01

The Narva batallion was the first Estonian Waffen-SS unit formed. It fought in Russia (Ukraine if I remember correctly) before the battles in Luga river (first Estonian Knights Cross), Narva and Blue Mountains.

Now the Estonian waffen-ss units fought until the bitter end, the last remaining units surrendered after the German surrender in Checkoslovakia.

The guerilla or partisan warfare against Soviet occupation lasted well into 50-ies. In 1945-47 was a period, when Soviets only managed to control cities and major roads during day-time. Most rural areas were controlled by partisans.

By the way, last Estonian partisan was shot in 1975 (or 1977, cant remember exact date).

Best Regards,

Mait.

PS! To Houndie - You might want to try that link http://hot.ee/vaikal/ajalugu-6.html
It´s about Estonian SS units. Sadly it is written in Estonian only.

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Mait
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Postby Mait » 04 Jul 2002 23:58

The Narva batallion was the first Estonian Waffen-SS unit formed. It fought in Russia (Ukraine if I remember correctly) before the battles in Luga river (first Estonian Knights Cross), Narva and Blue Mountains.


"Narva" didn't fight anywhere near Luga river. You are probably confusing it with the 658. Ost-Battalion, which commander Mjr. Alfons Rebane recieved the Knights cross on 23rd February 1944.

The mistake is mine and purely grammatical. I meant that the "Narva" batallion fought in Ostfront before the other Estonian units entered the combat near Estonian borders.

Best Regards,

Mait.

PS! Hello in Estonian is "Tere".

PPS! I know I am almost breaking the copyright law, but I would like to post a picture here. One of the guys there (without helmet) is from Estonian Legion. The book that holds this picture is about German army on Ostfront 1943-45 and You can find it from Amazon.
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Tapani K.
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Estonian Legion

Postby Tapani K. » 10 Jul 2002 07:09

Mait wrote:PPS! I know I am almost breaking the copyright law, but I would like to post a picture here. One of the guys there (without helmet) is from Estonian Legion. The book that holds this picture is about German army on Ostfront 1943-45 and You can find it from Amazon.



Hello and tere,

There seems to be some confusion concerning the term "Estonian Legion". It is my understanding that this term was an unofficial term used to create the impression that the legion was a purely Estonian force. It was used initially by the Germans in their recruiting drive for the Waffen-SS. At different times during the expansion of the Estonian Waffen-SS contingency the Legion would have referred to the regiment, brigade and then the division. This is how I have seen it used in literature, too. Therefore, since the NCO in the picture is definitely Estonian, he is wearing Wehrmacht uniform and would not be from the Estonian Legion.


regards,
Tapani K.
Last edited by Tapani K. on 03 Nov 2003 12:58, edited 2 times in total.

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houndie
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Postby houndie » 25 Jul 2002 03:45

I thought Eesti Leegion was the 20.th SS divisipn... Well, I guess the author of this site should immediately delete this site, telling practically all I know of the Division.

http://www.wssob.com/020divest.html
War is a matter of vital importance to the state. Hence, it is imperative that it be studied thoroughly - sun tzu
The truth of world war should be documented and it should not be treated as nazi propaganda.

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houndie
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Postby houndie » 25 Jul 2002 04:00

one thing I partly remember is that the estonians are mentioned twice in one daily report of the troops because of good warfare, while even being told about once is a high honour (I am not sure and could be mistaken).

I have an opportunity to see and talk to an estonian hero of the II WW - (Harri?) Nugiseks. He had a Knights Cross and is the last Knights Cross cavalier still alive. He was among 4. I'll give three names and see, if anyone would make something interesting of it: Harald Riipalu, Alfons Rebane and... you guessed it, Nugiseks!

I read Nugiseks took command of a unit, who lost it's commander, and completing the task. I don't know the numbers.

I've also heard of the hero of the Sinimäed, Bruus, but don't know what he had ever done.

If it interests anyone any more, then that's good. Too bad I know nothing else about them and I can't juice this thread in any way any more. It seems that this thread has already lost some of the fans.

From toenn.
War is a matter of vital importance to the state. Hence, it is imperative that it be studied thoroughly - sun tzu

The truth of world war should be documented and it should not be treated as nazi propaganda.

Tapani K.
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Postby Tapani K. » 25 Jul 2002 08:30

Yes, indeed, Eesti leegion was the 20th SS Division. But like I said, the NCO in the picture is not a member of this Division. Also, the Division was not officially named Eesti Leegion or Estnische Legion. Germans had the habit of recruiting foreigners into what they called "Legions", maybe in order to emulate the name of the French and Spanish Foreign Legions.

However, the term "Legion" was not used consistently. For Estonians, the Legion was the SS-Division whereas for Latvians, the Legion was a blanket term for all Latvians serving in the German armed forces, be it Waffen-SS, Schuma or Luftwaffe.

It is Harald Nugiseks. Why did you leave out Paul Maitla of the four KC winners? Rudolf Bruus was a battalion commander in the Estonian SS-Division in 1944. This page has tons of info on Estonia in WWII: http://www.okupatsioon.ee.

regards,
Tapani K.
Last edited by Tapani K. on 25 Jul 2002 11:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Mait
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Postby Mait » 25 Jul 2002 10:49

Sorry about the mistake with picture. I saw the armband and thought that these were worn by Estonian Legion (Waffen-SS estonian volunteers) men.

I am not very good with German uniforms (yet), and have almost no clue with different tunics/boots/etc.

I thank You for correcting my mistake.

Best Regards,

Mait.

Tapani K.
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Postby Tapani K. » 26 Jul 2002 06:37

Maybe the easiest way to tell the difference are the collar patches and the eagle emblem. In this picture you see the Wechrmacht way, which would make this NCO probably a member of an Estonian Ost-Bataillon ( East Battalion, Idapataljon, also called Eesti rahvuspataljon) Three were three of them at the stage of war, numbered 658, 659 and 660. In 1944 these battalions were joined into the Estonian SS-Division.

The Waffen-SS sported black collar patches and the eagle was not on the right breast but on the left upper sleeve. Also, the eagle was slightly different in shape.

regards,
Tapani K.

Luca
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Re: Eesti Leegion

Postby Luca » 26 Jul 2002 09:08

Mait wrote:The guerilla or partisan warfare against Soviet occupation lasted well into 50-ies. In 1945-47 was a period, when Soviets only managed to control cities and major roads during day-time. Most rural areas were controlled by partisans.

By the way, last Estonian partisan was shot in 1975 (or 1977, cant remember exact date).


Dear Mait,
im very interested concern all the fighters that was say : war will finish when i will dead!
Please, can You add others informations concern the last fighters?
Thank You very much
Luca

PS = this topic is off of this forum only if we say that the war was finish when some high ranks put the sign into a piece of paper.
Very funny if we think that the power for put the signs was a present from a Man that say:"The surrender of any village is unquestionable" or so.

Luca
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Estonian Waffen-SS Batt. song

Postby Luca » 26 Jul 2002 09:20

Dear members,
i search the Eesti text of this really strong and good song.
A traslation in some others language will very apreciated.
Thank You.
Luca
PS = is possible send audio email to this precious forum? 8O

Reigo
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Postby Reigo » 26 Jul 2002 10:35

i search the Eesti text of this really strong and good song.
A traslation in some others language will very apreciated.



You probably mean "Narwa" Battalion's song? I have the text and I post it later with a translation.

Reigo
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Postby Reigo » 26 Jul 2002 10:39

And here's a bit info about the partisans after the war:

After the retreat of Germans, at least 30,000 soldiers remained in hiding in the Estonian forests, further on leading a massive guerrilla war. In 1949, still, 27.650 Soviet militaries led the war against the local partisans. Only the 1949 mass deportation (21,000 people were taken away) broke the basis of the guerrilla movement and, further on, the failure of the Hungarian uprising broke the moral resistance of the 700 men still remaining under cover.

According to the Soviet data, up to 1953, 20,351 partisans were disarmed. Of these,

1 510 perished in the battles. During that period, 1 728 members of the Red Army, NKVD and the militia were killed by the "forest brothers". Considering the 6 600 partisans who gave themselves up to the November of 1949, the above mentioned number 30,000 can be regarded as modest.


http://www.okupatsioon.ee./english/overviews/index.html

Luca
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Postby Luca » 26 Jul 2002 10:42

Reigo wrote:
i search the Eesti text of this really strong and good song.
A traslation in some others language will very apreciated.



You probably mean "Narwa" Battalion's song? I have the text and I post it later with a translation.


Dear Reigo,
sorry but i don't know.
I ve take this song in "Morpheus" much time ago from another user.
He title the song "Estonian Waffen SS Batt. song"
Thank You a lot for Your help.
With friendly
Luca

Reigo
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Postby Reigo » 26 Jul 2002 10:59

I ve take this song in "Morpheus" much time ago from another user.
He title the song "Estonian Waffen SS Batt. song"


Hi,

Please, can you send this song to me. Do you have MSN-messenger?

Regards,

Luca
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Postby Luca » 26 Jul 2002 11:18

Reigo wrote:
I ve take this song in "Morpheus" much time ago from another user.
He title the song "Estonian Waffen SS Batt. song"


Hi,

Please, can you send this song to me. Do you have MSN-messenger?

Regards,


Dear Reigo,
sure!
But is better wait my son (that will arrive in the next hours) cause i vent pratica concern PC...for example= i vent idea if i ve MSN or not.
Maybe will necessary 1 Your email, or not?
Luca


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